Bloody Elbow Exclusive: Chuck Liddell Mulling Move to Heavyweight to Face Randy Couture
by Michael Rome on Nov 24, 2008 9:12 AM EST
in MMA News
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A strong source indicates to Bloody Elbow that Chuck Liddell is currently in negotiations to move to heavyweight in order to fight Randy Couture. The proposed fight would take place on June 13th in Cologne, Germany.
The UFC wants to have Randy on their Germany show because he speaks the language and can do all the promotion. The winner of the fight would face the heavyweight champion in a big fight at the end of the year.
Couture is uninterested in moving down to 205 where Forrest Griffin is champion and Wanderlei Silva is also a contender. Both are close to him and in his camp, and weight cutting takes a toll at his age. Given his status, they aren't going to have him fight guys like Cheick Kongo, it is only big fights for Couture at this stage.
For Liddell, the thought is that at his age the weight cutting process is taking more of a toll on his body, and whereas he would have to win a bunch of fights to get back at contention at 205, the heavyweight division is thin enough where he could jump in and be an immediate contender with a win.
It is believed internally that Couture/Liddell will draw better than Silva/Liddell, and they know that a potential Liddell/Lesnar match would probably be the biggest PPV in the history of MMA. It's one of those win-win situations for PPV business. Even a match between the two losers later in the year could likely do big business.
The Anderson Silva match was discussed, but the buyrate news from October pretty much sealed the deal against that fight. Anderson Silva will still probably fight in February in the UK, but not against Liddell.
Update: This show will be UFC 99 unless they add another show to their schedule. UFC 100 will be the weekend of July 4.
EDITORIAL Note [from Luke Thomas]: To websites using this news: BloodyElbow.com was the first to publish this scoop, not the UK Sun. We ask that you respect this fact and give this site and Michael Rome proper credit for breaking this news.
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Yeah Cheick Kongo should probably get it. Or maybe Junior Dos Santos.
by Michael Rome on Nov 22, 2008 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Its ok if Nog takes it from Brock
But if Brock defends what the hell is the point of that? Randy will be another year older and Brock will be another year better. Pointless fight. I would rather see Dos Santos or Gonzaga
Randy and Chuck makes sense though don’t get me wrong. I just think that while Brock holds the belt there is no point of a Randy rematch.
Bottom line is Randy thinks he didn’t realize Brock’s reach ahead of time, and thinks if Brock didnt hold the cage to block the slam the whole fight would have been different. To be honest, Randy did a pretty great job nullifying Brock’s wrestling, and then got KO’ed. I don’t think you can completely count him out.
Think of it from the UFC’s perspective. If it’s a big rematch at MSG, underdog COuture vs. monster champion Lesnar…that’s just huge. Either you cement Lesnar or you have a legendary upset.
The fight business is about “big fights.” It’s the kind of emotion in the crowd at MSG that had everyone standing the whole time, living and dying on every strike and takedown. That is what promoting is about. That is what this does.
by Michael Rome on Nov 22, 2008 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Which is pretty brilliant matchmaking. The winner of that one can then challenge for the title in yet another big match.
This can take up over a year or more of HW division fights at the top. Meanwhile you give Carwin and Velasquez time to make a name for themselves and fight the big names in 18 months.
by Michael Rome on Nov 22, 2008 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
Which is really why, despite what you can say about if Brock deserved the title shot in the first place, it sets up big money and interesting fights in the UFC HW division for the upcoming future.
What were people saying about the HW division the day before the fight was going announced?
Great, Werdum gets to fight the winner of Nog/Mir. now they can use HW to make main events for an entire year.
I’m sure the master gameplanner forgot to consider Brock’s reach.. What’s his excuse for the big elbow that wobbled him? Over a 5 round fight, Randy would have to dodge too many bullets to last vs. Lesnar on the feet. His only chance would be to grind him out.
Brock would KO him again, as Randy’s chin is there for the taking vs. anyone with power and somewhat quick hands. That’s not necessarily Chuck, from what we’ve seen recently. I might even give Dos Santos the edge on Randy.
Christ, we haven’t seen anywhere near enough on Dos Santos to make that kind of call. One good punch does not equal > Randy Couture.
by idefinecagefighter on Nov 24, 2008 3:31 AM EST up reply actions
Why would Dos Santos get a title shot?
After one win in the UFC (against an albeit top guy but still..)
It’s like saying Jardine should have got a title shot after beating Chuck.
Awesome!
Great fight! People will complain as they usually do about everything but sounds good to me!
i think its a good matchup too. Hopefully if randy wins he doesnt get the title shot if the title is still with lesnar. although i think chuck wins, and then they should put him up against lesnar/nog. I think he’d have a decent chance against nog. and against lesnar, it would be really interesting if lesnar can take him down easily.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 22, 2008 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Let’s hope they don’t change plans and make me look bad ;)
by Michael Rome on Nov 22, 2008 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
You're not alone
Given more time to train and get better and Liddell just getting older… I think Lesnar just beats Liddell. This is definitely big news about Liddell and Couture…. but its Liddell and Couture… for the 4th time… only things different are their ages and the weight class. Liddell and Couture’s best chances of regaining gold are in the heavyweight division because they can very well bank on Lesnar’s lack of experience but he is only going to get better… they’re just going to get older.
Marketing wise, this makes perfect sense because these two can still sell PPV’s…. but in regards to championship gold… ehhh… I’m waiting on Cain Velasquez and Shane Carwin. Of course, none of it matters if Nog beats Mir then takes care of Lesnar. Best chance of dethroning Lesnar is in Nog’s hands.
by Gunslinger20 on Nov 22, 2008 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
I’d rule out Vera after losing to Jardine…. Anderson Silva vs Keith Jardine makes sense stylistically, but what does that fight do for either of them? Is Anderson Silva going to do what BJ Penn is doing and go for the multiple weight class gold? Keith Jardine wins, does that automatically give him a title shot? I don’t think it does… as incredible as it would be for him to beat Anderson Silva.
by Gunslinger20 on Nov 22, 2008 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
a rematch of vera jardine? are you serious?
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 22, 2008 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think he was saying Vera OR Jardine to face Anderson Silva… at least I don’t think he was trying to say Jardine should fight Vera again.
by Gunslinger20 on Nov 22, 2008 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
oh okay.. Ya i think youre right. haha. sorry bout that.
And i wouldnt want to see that snoozefest again haha. Either fight would be good. But i think both will still lose to silva haha. :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 22, 2008 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
Same here. I like vera or Jardine better than Couture or Liddell for Silva but honestly, I’d rather see him face a top of the division guy – Evans, Griffen, Wanderlei or Rampage. He deserves to fight the best.
My dream match up
Wanderlei Silva vs Anderson Silva….. holy crap that would be a great match up… that fight, in my opinion, would be one of the greatest fights in MMA history.
by Gunslinger20 on Nov 22, 2008 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
maybe jardine then title shot? or jardine then the winner of wanderlei rampage, then title shot.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 23, 2008 5:54 AM EST up reply actions
I thought about Vera to but it really makes more sense for Jardine. I think Jardine stands a better chance than liddel would and could be a interesting fight. I think Jardine fights a style that couldcounter Silvas pretty well. It depends if the UFC wants silva to have a domintaing win or not. If jardine did happen to win this could be the UFC’s chance to really give Jardine a name since he seems to not be very marketable.
I think it’s a fun match to think about, with Chuck’s sprawl and standing up ability. Not to mention he hits a lot harder than Randy, or at least he used to. Either way I think Randy will beat Chuck this time around.
by Michael Rome on Nov 22, 2008 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
i think randy gets knocked out by chuck again..
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 22, 2008 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
UFC 100 in Germany?
That landmark event should be held in Vegas. And another Liddell/Couture fight does not interest me in the slightest.
It’s a fight between legends, for fans. Neither guy will ever be in serious contention for the HW title, so let them fight and let the fans enjoy it. I’m all for it.
Won’t be 101. It could be 99, just thinking about the schedule. 100 will either be this show, or Las Vegas on July 4.
by Michael Rome on Nov 22, 2008 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think it is, I remember reading somewhere (may have been you!) that they were planning their 100th show to be a big extragavanja on July 4th.
A show in Germany I would think would be a free show on Spike – fight night, not a numbered ppv.
If this ends up on there, it is surely a PPV. Both guys have contracts based on PPV percentage, and a fight like this would never be free unless they had a network showing it.
You know, that is a possibility. What if this is UFC 100 and they get a big free station to air it?
by Michael Rome on Nov 22, 2008 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, thats a good point. My impression though was they want a huge match like Randy/Brock 2, Randy/Nog, or Chuck going for the title headlining MSG. I guess you could have Anderson vs. GSP…
by Michael Rome on Nov 22, 2008 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
not again!
They both have short careers left ahead of them. There are so many match-ups out there. Why hold the same fight 4 times?
is there really even a point for them to fight again? neither of them really stand a chance against lesnar mir or nog no matter who would be the champ at this time.
by 5fingerdeathpunch on Nov 22, 2008 8:49 PM EST reply actions
??
Both would crush Mir, and both have a chance against Nog. And I can’t get into Lesnar now, but the idea of neither having a chance is silly. Underdogs? Sure. But this is MMA.
by Michael Rome on Nov 22, 2008 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
i agree. I think both of them are favorites against mir.. And both of them have a chance against nog.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 22, 2008 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
CHuck would be the favorite against Nog…
Think about it:
Nog is slow as shit and won’t be able to take chuck down – perfect recipe.
OKAY.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 23, 2008 5:55 AM EST up reply actions
I think Randy or Chuck taking the looser of Mir/Nog sounds about right; the other could always put Carwin to the first real test (I’d like to see Chuck/Carwin, Randy/Mir, Nog/Brock personally). But I think the real problem is waiting until there are enough big guys in the UFC to split the top end at 235-265 or whatever. Otherwise I can’t help but feel there is a aspect of Japanese “freak fight” to some of the matchups. I mean, really: 60 lbs? Too much.
Maybe that’s the best thing about a beefy Brock win… lure in all those mid-twenty athletes with similar builds that didn’t quite make the cut from collegiate football to the NFL? I dunno. Even once the Affliction boat finishes sinking, there still aren’t enough to split the division I guess. But that’s what I think the old guys that can’t/won’t cut severely need to be more competitive.
by swarmofkillermonkeys on Nov 24, 2008 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly
Neither guy will be getting the hw title, so might as well match them up and sell tickets. No point wasting them.
i think its kinda sad acctually. 1st off at how many people will probably watch this for the fourth f ing time and that the winner will get a title shot. their are people who have been working there way up for a while in the hw division already
I am new enough to have never seen any of the previous 3 fights, or the previous 2 Wanderlei/Rampage fights, so both of them are new to me.
the first chuck randy fight was good. other two. ehh to me anyway. i didn’t care for them. i was looking foward to 3 but was let down. and rampage wanderlei were dominations in my oppinion. never really seen rampage exploited like that.
Actually, Rampage had Wandy in trouble in one of those fights…untilt the BS standup by the referee.
http://mma4real.net/
by Tha Realness on Nov 22, 2008 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
If it truly was the anything goes wild west in PRIDE as you always claim, then they were on as equal footing there as they are here.
by Frank_Castle on Nov 24, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
Rampage had him in trouble in both fights, but more so the second.
by Luke Thomas on Nov 23, 2008 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
who has really been working their way up the division though?
Werdum lost and is gone, dos Santos has 1 fight, Gonzaga and Carwin are on 2 fight winning streaks, but Gonzaga just lost a title shot and Carwin is pretty new to the UFC, the HW division is still a mess (outside the upcoming title shots). You throw Randy and Chuck in there to have some superfights and get Velazquez and Carwin some more wins and bigger reputations with the fans, and in a year you have a decent looking division.
I’d hate to see UFC 100 be on a tape delay PPV from Germany. That show should be at home base in Vegas and should be some sort of spectacle.
I’m not excited at all about a Randy vs Chuck match, but I can understand how it’ll sell tickets. I don’t see either guys being a contender at 205 or HW. So I really can’t argue against this fight. I don’t want it to be at UFC 100 and I really don’t want it to be in friggin’ Germany.
the only place outside of Vegas would be MSG.
It seems a like a long shot. Getting the bill passed and all the t’s crossed and i’s dotted in 9 events?
They’re going to have to throw in a few .5’s and UFN’s to put out cards at the rate they’ve been going for 100 in NY to be possible. (especially with all NY politicians trying to grab Hillary’s senate seat if she becomes Sec. of State, but that’s neither here nor there).
Is it me or have UFC just thrown out all convention with the heavyweights and said “Screw it, anyone can fight anyone for the title at any time, we’re not even going to pretend to build up contenders.”
News like this just highlights how paper thin HW is.
While I dont doubt Couture still has talent and the such...
I fear we are going to have Hulk Hogan in MMA. While they are obviously marketable, I dont consider Liddell a top flight (IE, top 5) contender anymore. I just dont want to see title shots wasted on these two if they dont deserve them. Couture, im ok with for now…but Liddell needs to get a streak going before he starts getting in the title picture.
I fear the marketability of these two is going to keep these guys at the top for far longer than they should be.
Does anyone really think Chuck won’t get knocked out just like Randy? Brock out weighs Chuck by even more.
I’m thinking same thing, Chuck doesn’t even have anywhere near the offensive wrestling that Randy has.
by dualdiagnosis on Nov 23, 2008 4:03 AM EST up reply actions
He wouldn’t need offensive wrestling against Brock, he’s got great defensive. I say he still has a good chance to knock him out.
Chuck had a really bad cut against Rashad down to 205, I do think it had an effect.
WHat people don’t get, and this is a result of being in the hardcore cocoon, is that there is a whole generation of fans that weren’t watching during the trilogy. To them, it’s a fresh match between two legends. When they did the third fight, it did the biggest buyrate ever at the time…but that was still just about 400k buys. There are a lot more and different fans now.
Is this about making money for the UFC and probably the end of Randy or Chucks career or at least a title run. Kongo and Brock would be a better fight to me. As for Rashad and Chuck, Chuck said in an interview he was winning up until the KO. Hey Chuck some of the guys you fought probably said the same thing. You got Knocked Out!!! Another Loss!!!!
Randy only has a few fights left in him, I don’t think any should be used on rematches unless it involves winning back a title.
If I don’t get Randy vs Fedor then I’ve gotta see Randy vs Big Nog.
You still want to see Fedor v Randy? You don’t think that would be a massacre in light of recent events?
by Derek Suboticki on Nov 23, 2008 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Some news from The Sun:
Instead, we can reveal matchmaker Joe Silva is considering offering the Brazilian a fight with the loser of one of the two big light heavyweight clashes taking place at UFC 92 on December 27.
That line up sees reigning 205lbs champion Forrest Griffin defend his title against Rashad Evans, while Quinton ‘Rampage’ Jackson faces Wanderlei Silva for a third time.
Awesome news, exactly what I had hoped for.
And:
But UFC officials have instead offered The Iceman a fourth clash against veteran star Randy Couture, 45, set to take place on June 13 in Cologne, Germany.
So big grats to Mr. Rome for getting the scoop over anyone else!
Ugh, it's the last fight I want to see!
Randy only has 2-3 fights left on his contract (forget how many but it doesn’t matter)…
The last thing we need is Chuck vs Randy 4! :P There is absolutely ZERO need for this fight!
It’s just all about $$$ to them! With Randy probably less than a handful of fights away from retirement, why have him fight Liddell for the 4th fucking time?!
They can still use Randy & Chuck for awesome headlining PPVs that would draw huge ratings…
Chuck vs Anderson Silva
Randy vs Anderson Silva
Chuck vs Brock
Randy vs Nog (to kinda see who “should have” been the champion between them)
Those are interesting matches putting 2 top names against each other every time. Not part 4 of 2 guys who have no business fighting each other AGAIN.
Sucks.
Keep Swillin',
Bruz
boooo-urns
seriously? Randy and Chuck….again. Is Randy planning on not getting punched? He cant handle getting punched anymore. I love Randy and am not calling for his retirement but he should stick to grapplers.
Chuck will NEVER fight Lesnar. Chuck will move right back to LHW after this fight. He’s only going to HW because he knows he can beat Randy. “Hey Chuck wanna fight Randy again? His chin is worse and he’s slower than last time. Oh, and you dont have to cut weight and Randy’s only coming in at 220 so you shold be heavier. And we’ll pay you a lot and then after you can call out all the other heavyweights but then not actually fight them and go back to LHW”
And seriously, Hunt vs Lesnar would be awesome. Where the hell is Hunt?
Hope people dont take this the wrong way.............
I am ALWAYS for giving credit where credit is do…..Great job for breaking the story first. 5 % oz did another one of these “ask permission or give credit to US” when Kimbo and Rogers’ camp were bickering(also one of the last times I went to that site). 90% of the posts HERE and at other blogs start like…..
“’ -——- website’ has the scoop”
" ‘so and so site’ has the story"
“this site says…..”
then the story from WHOEVER got it first just re written. I agree with the fact that plagiarism and copying others’ stories and calling them your own is b.s. Maybe I am looking too much into this….I just see it too much lately….A website gets teh first story and LETS everyone else know it and ask them permission to use or make sure the credit is given……
If that were the case MMARATED….. would be the frist sentence of nearly every post on every site. they have “the scoop” or the breaking news on just about everything big that happens in mma. And you dont see them telling everyone to give them credit and/or ask permission to say the wecret they were told.
Just my 2 cents. I am very happy to hear breaking news. I just hope sites dont get TOO PICKY, then the news will NOT spread as fast. I also know it sucks to be copied, etc, etc…
So, I didnt mean for this to sound negative.
There’s no problem, the only thing anyone wants is just BE to be mentioned if you post it, then write whatever you want or quote the whole thing. It’s just common courtesy among blogs. Nobody wants to restrict the flow of information.
by Michael Rome on Nov 23, 2008 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
exactly...
I don’t think you’ll see many posts at all where our site isn’t breaking news that we don’t give credit to the site that does so. There is standard operating procedure where you give credit where it is due.
All we’re asking is that you don’t wait for a story to be picked up by someplace that is not a direct competitor so that you don’t have to possibly send traffic to a competitor. I understand WHY certain sites didn’t give Rome credit…but that doesn’t make it right.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 23, 2008 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Also...
news will spread just as fast…just with the standard “as reported by bloodyelbow.com” or “hat tip to MMARated for breaking the story” so don’t worry that things will be slowed down.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 23, 2008 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
No interest
I don’t really have much interest in this fight at all. Simply because whoever wins – we’ve seen it before.
Liddell – A.Silva. That’s a fight I want to see. AS is favourite but it’s not as easy to call as you think.
Couture – A.Silva. I might get flamed but I see Randy winning this fight 7 or 8 times out of 10.
The heavyweight picture still has many places to go.
Liddell – Lesnar. A complete mismatch that would see Chuck get his ass beat down hard. Chuck looks big at LHW but against Brock?? And who’s to say Brock will beat Nog anyway.
i thnk Silva wins against liddell and couture easily.. couture may give him a bit of trouble compared to chuck because of his wrestling but i see him getting caught and knockedout with the same odds you gave randy.. Randy would lose if he pulled the clinch game on silva. His best bet of winning would be henderson’s lay and pray. (thats not a knock on hendo, silva just has a good guard that its hard to damage him much)
And brock vs Nog, that would be a good one to see. I can see it going either way. (thats if lesnar keeps on improving at the same rate..)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 23, 2008 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
After Dana’s attitude this last week and this fight being a possibility, around mid 09’ I might stop buying PPV’s and just watching it a few hours later on the net for free.
I’m sure Dana wont mind the 50+ new fans who will take your place.
Sometimes we have to indulge fights like these to help solidify MMA’s popularity with the new fans. It doesnt ALWAYS have to be strictly about competition and rankings.
by Benicio on Nov 24, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s the problem. He won’t mind the 50+ fans that will take my place this fight, but he will see the consequences the next UFC when those fans don’t come back.
You think Couture/Liddell 4 will turn those fans off? I don’t see it going that way at all.
by Michaelthebox on Nov 24, 2008 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Other Fantasy Matchups...that should be reality
There are so many match ups that I want to see which I thought would happen when Pride got taken over. How do you guys think these would go?
Couture – Wand: Couture for sure in this fight.
Couture – Jackson: Jackson
Couture – Griffin (not related to Pride I know): This would be an amazing fight to watch with two such well rounded guys.
Liddell – Griffin: This should happen at some point if chuck ever gets his mojo back
Cotoure speaks german?
“Randy Couture really doesn’t speak fluent German. Couture joined the U.S. Army some 25 years ago. He spent six years in the service. Its unclear how many years he spent in Germany. I’d go as far as saying Couture is as fluent in German as Anderson Silva is fluent in English. If he still speaks any German its far from fluent.”
http://freefightvideos.blogspot.com/2008/11/ufc-germany-ich-dont-think-so.html
That’s just an opinion piece by some guy. I wouldn’t take anything he writes as fact.
As far as mainland European countries in which to try to get a foothold, Germany is the most obvious choice. He makes a point about there not actually being German fighters in the UFC, while there are fighters from Holland and Croatia – Holland and Croatia are tiny compared to Germany (no offense to Croatia or Holland – Go Orange!).
Tomasz Drwal fights for German Best Team.
by Luke Thomas on Nov 24, 2008 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
And also...
From UFC.com
“Did you go to college and if so what degree did you earn? Randy attended Oklahoma State University and earned a degree in German.”
(Thanks to the commenter on the page you linked for pointing that out)
Es seit aus, das der Randy Deutsch kann lol :)
I can’t for the life of me understand why Dos Santos’ name is being bandied. He had one good punch on someone that ducked right into it. It means very little. Remember when Soku KO’d Arona and Lil’Nog in Pride? He hasn’t faired nearly as well in the UFC. Though he’s a quality fighter, he has a long way to go. Dos Santos has barely started to prove himself.
I’m personally not that excited about Chuck Randy IV. III was exciting but the fight sort of stinkied. FWIW, I can’t wait for Chuck Wandy 3. Wand is the only person to knock Page out like that. When Page collapsed into the ropes like that I couldn’t believe my eyes. The guy has a noggin like no other, and just doesn’t get KO’d like that.
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