My thoughts on the Lesnar hate...
I just wanted to take some time to respond to the types of comments I have seen regarding the Lesnar/Couture fight on this site (and others), so here we go...
"Lesnar didnt deserve to get a title shot after only two fights."
Probably true, but he doesnt control this. Any other fighter given the chance would have taken it. What some people here have yet to understand is that while mixed martial arts is a sport, it is also entertainment, and it is also a business.
"Lesnar proved nothing to me by beating a 45 year old Randy Couture."
This arguement is fine...if you really believe it and you said it before the fight. Problem is most of the people that said Randy would kick Lesnars ass, have changed their tune after the fact and still refuse to give Lesnar any credit.
"The only reason Brock Lesnar won this fight is because he was bigger."
While it is true that Lesnars size and weight will always be an advantage, that alone does not win fights. If it did, Hong-Man Choi and Bob Sapp would be the best fighters in MMA. If you choose to fight 45 pounds under the weight limit in a given class, you accept that you will on occasion be giving up an enormous amount of weight. While it plays a factor in his fights, it does not give you the right to discredit everything he does.
"I certainly do not see Lesnar as the best and I think Fedor would take him out."
I agree, but what does that have to do with anything? I dont think anyone is claiming Lesnar is the most skilled mixed martial artist in the world. You cant respect a fighter until he has beaten Fedor? Or Nog? Give me a break, that is a pretty short list.
"I just hope this doesnt set the sport back too much."
This fight recieved more ESPN coverage than any other event in the history of the UFC and it was all about the fight, not debating the validity of the sport. It also brought in the 4th highest gate in history, in a time when the economy is in a downturn. How can that be bad for the sport?
"People are saying how great this is for MMA because it’s bringing in new fans. I say, who cares? These people dont know anything about the sport anyway."
You should care because the more fans brought to the sport, the more we will see it covered on ESPN and in other mainstream media. The more popular it gets, the easier it will be for smaller promotions to do well. This will create more ways for fighters to make make a living and raise their pay. This means more people will train in MMA, and we will start to see even better fighters coming up. Everyone was new to the sport at one time, you arent better than anyone else. I have never seen fans of other sports complain when they gain popularity. If you love the sport, why wouldnt you want to see it grow?
My point is, while you dont have to like Lesnar, people need to stop trying to discredit everyting he does. I cant think of anyone that has fought the caliber of fighters that he has in their first four fights. He is extremely athletic, a great wrestler, has huge potential if he continues to grow, and is exposing new fans to the sport. If he was not a former pro wrestler, everyone would be really excited about him. Instead they are caught up in their epic battle to prove how much cooler they are than fans of pro wrestling and other sports.
(P.S. I am not and have never been a fan of pro wrestling, nor am I a Lesnar "nuthugger," just tired of seeing so much undue hate toward him for reasons other than maybe his personality, but I know that is not the reason for most of it, feel free to disagree and let the mud slinging begin...)
ADDITION: One thing I forgot to add are my comments about the people comparing Lesnar to Kimbo Slice. Kimbo was a streetfighter from Youtube, Lesnar an NCAA wrestling champion. Kimbo fought cans and looked aweful against them, Lesnar fought real competition and looked pretty good. Is anyone actually comparing Tank Abbott/James Thompson/Seth Petruzelli to Frank Mir/Heath Herring/Randy Couture? Not if they have half a brain. Lesnar is way more skilled and athletic and would beat Kimbo easily. The only comparison you can make is that they both got a chance because of their name recognition and the marketing possabilities that go along with it, but that is how business works.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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I agree II
Think how you like about his former line of work, but his path to UFC belt-dom was definitely not easy. What’s nice is that he doesn’t seem to buy into his own hype, saying many times that he still has a lot to learn. The UFC handled his climb well. Had this been an Elite XC deal…..yeesh, sorry for typing that. I need to wash my mouth out with lava soap.
by INGO B on
Nov 18, 2008 7:10 PM EST
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I'll re-post my thoughts from the SHW thread -
I really don’t get the true animosity expressed towards Brock. I understand myth’s point about not wanting scripted characters, and being told who to love and who to hate. But the argument that for some reason he should be crucified for taking advantage of his natural physique while guys like Alves or Timmay aren’t is hypocritical.
I’m ok if we define fight classes by more criteria than just weight. Go ahead and do it by arm reach, leg reach, torso length, head circumference, I don’t care. I think there are reasonable arguments to be made for those inclusions.
But the notion that Brock should receive less credit for his efforts because of his efforts in the gym and strict adherence to a diet? It’s absurd.
Those muscles don’t just appear, guys. Anyone here tried to pack on that kind of meat? I have, and I’ve never weighed more than 175 while in good shape, and I stand at 6’2". I’ve done everything, the 6 hour weight-room workout routines, combined with the proper hydration and protein supplements, and nothing. I’m actually envious of Brock that he can pack on that kind of muscle, and if I could do it and maintain it on my frame, you bet your ass I would.
Just because he isn’t as technically proficient doesn’t mean the man devotes ANY LESS TIME to training than his peers. This whole outcry seems based on his perceived ‘sense of entitlement,’ which is a legitimate complaint based on his interviews. But don’t let that fool you into thinking this guy just decided to start fighting one day, didn’t train for it, and took the heavyweight title two years later. This man is a gifted, talented and dedicated professional athlete.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Nov 18, 2008 7:27 PM EST
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Mighty bold stance you’re taking here.
by mythbuster on
Nov 18, 2008 7:43 PM EST
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Contrary to 1960's catchphrases
it’s not always boldest to go against the group ;)
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Nov 18, 2008 7:50 PM EST
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Puppies are cute.
Rec this comment!
by mythbuster on
Nov 18, 2008 7:55 PM EST
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Almost got me,
except have you ever seen a pug-puppy? Or is that, a pug-py? Bleach.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Nov 18, 2008 8:08 PM EST
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I had a pug growing up. Great dogs.
by mythbuster on
Nov 19, 2008 9:53 AM EST
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How did I know that was coming?
Nice pic. Everyone I’ve known who’s had one loves them to tears.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Nov 19, 2008 11:27 PM EST
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Good man
I really, really expected better from our community. I thought Brock’s domination – that’s dom-i-na-tion – of Randy would earn the respect of the fans. I thought performance, respect for your opponent and geniune dedication to the sport would be rewarded. I was powerfully wrong.
It’s just sad, because Brock Lesnar could’ve shoveled shit for a living and have more respect than he does now.
by subo on
Nov 18, 2008 8:30 PM EST
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Brock Lesnar was a division I wrestling champion who got repeatedly controlled in the clinch against the fence by a 45 year old man who weighed nearly 50 lbs. less, winning the fight the same way anyone with a puncher’s chance could.
by George Lucas on
Nov 19, 2008 7:15 PM EST
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Puncher’s chance usually refers to someone who is getting dominated and can hit one lucky shot.
Lesnar hit Randy with 3+ good shots. Did you not see the elbow that shook Randy’s legs?
Randy may have been tiring Brock, but Brock definitely did the most damage up to the KO sequence.
by bigweeze on
Nov 19, 2008 7:33 PM EST
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Your fight analysis sucks as much as your prequels and remakes.
Randy Couture is the greatest heavyweight champion in the history of the UFC, beat two monsters in his last two fights (one of which, Gonzaga, I am SURE you’d pick over Lesnar at this point) – and got gnp’d halfway through the second after getting dropped by a clean, legal punch.
Brock Lesnar is the UFC Heavyweight Champion. And he’s getting better.
What he was is irrelevant.
by subo on
Nov 19, 2008 7:34 PM EST
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Same.
That was pretty smooth.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Nov 19, 2008 11:28 PM EST
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Ditto. Did you know Lucas’ daughter is a mma fighter??
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on
Nov 19, 2008 11:57 PM EST
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For real?
It’s hard to tell when you’re bullshitting, because you’ve been claiming kickers and such.
by Blackout612 on
Nov 20, 2008 12:04 AM EST
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I remember that, I think she got beat up pretty bad but didn’t quit. Something like that.
by mythbuster on
Nov 20, 2008 9:35 AM EST
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While I may not be sold on Brock as the #1 HW, there is no doubt he is legit and deserving.
Nice write up.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on
Nov 18, 2008 8:52 PM EST
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good read. I completely agree.. if he didn’t come from wwe people would be raving about him. If dos santos suddely beats herring and randy after the werdum win, we’d love him for that. There surely wouldnt be this much hate towards him.
One thing i also hate is the kimbo slice comparisons. God, you must be blind or stupid if you think they’re at par at skill level. The only thing they have in common is popularity, but brock brings it, and kimbo fights and loses to bums.
(and also, i am not a wwe fan nor am i a brock nuthugger. i just dont get all the hate, cause he already proved he’s a good fighter. get over it guys)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by weoweoweo on
Nov 18, 2008 10:29 PM EST
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There is a legitimate point regarding the Brock and Kimbo comparisons,
but even Brock’s loudest critics won’t claim they’re in the same class skill-wise. The similarity is in the way they’ve been forced through the system, with Kimbo being fed cans on prime-time, and Brock actually fighting through some reasonable and elite competition.
One of the things that makes UFC so great is the spontaneity of it, how a Dos Santos can come out of nowhere (seemingly) and get everyone buzzing. Because quite literally inside of a year, that man could be considered one of the greatest fighters in this class. Is it likely? Of course not, but it is absolutely possible. That’s the drama of MMA. And being force-fed characters makes most of the MMA fan-base rebel.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Nov 19, 2008 11:32 PM EST
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They are polar opposites of the celebrity fighter spectrum
I don’t think people should want to make that distinction. Kimbo accepted the lowest possible opposition and Brock jumped into the deep end.
by Blackout612 on
Nov 19, 2008 11:57 PM EST
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Somebody needed to sup up the thoughts of all of that possess logic.
To anybody that disagrees with this guys article: you lack the basic logic and reasoning skills that separate humans from animals. Congratulations. Brock Lesnar isn’t setting the sport back but your continued existence is setting the human race back.
by dropkick101 on
Nov 18, 2008 11:21 PM EST
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Somebody needed to sup up the thoughts of all of that possess logic
… somebody needs to get a translator so people know what the heck you are talking about.
Oh, and “sum up*” doesn’t make it any clearer.
by Kierkegaard on
Nov 19, 2008 11:00 AM EST
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Wow, you fixed his typo for him, tell him it won’t help him, and twenty one minutes later he fixes it.
by subo on
Nov 19, 2008 6:31 PM EST
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He fixed his typo a day before Kierkegaard referred to it. Also, I think Kierkegaard’s point was that even after dropkick fixed his typo, it still made no sense.
by Richard Wade on
Nov 19, 2008 6:43 PM EST
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I hated Lesnar in the WWE so it sorta carried over.
He is definitely a spectacle in MMA, his potential is limitless, and he is pretty talented. I still dont like him, but since everyone that hates him seems to hate him for the wrong reasons, I feel like I have to state my case.
by Slica on
Nov 18, 2008 11:56 PM EST
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Now that is the right kind of hate =)
by iiowyn on
Nov 19, 2008 10:37 AM EST
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Well, I would say, if you dont like him because he seems cocky, that is okay. I dislike some fighters because of their personalities, but just because I dont like them, doesnt mean I can discredit everything they do. I may root against them but I will give them credit if they impress me.
by metaldome on
Nov 19, 2008 10:58 AM EST
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Ok cool, thanks. Just making sure that I dislike him for the right reasons :)
by mythbuster on
Nov 19, 2008 11:04 AM EST
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Do I dislike him? And if so, is it for the same reasons mythbuster dislikes him, or is it more like Slica’s reasons? I’m so confused…I just want to belong!
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Nov 19, 2008 11:35 PM EST
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Shhhh, it’s ok. It’s ok. We want you with us, we would love to have you join us. Do you accept the Brock as your savior? After all, he blessed God.
by iiowyn on
Nov 20, 2008 10:29 AM EST
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i have the right reasons to hate lesnar-the penis tattoo
i dont hate lesnar, but so far he hasnt fought anyone where i was rooting for lesnar.
but for me it comes down to this. i dont like the bigger less-well rounded guy winning. i want to believe that if i train hard enough i can beat up a much bigger opponent and he sort of speaks to the contrary. i’d describe his fighting style as ‘after-school bully’. i acknowledge his wrestling credentials and i know he’s getting better at the other aspects of the game. but he’ll never win by go-goplata or headkick
and the penis tattoo….lets not forget about it
and gonna throw this out there, paul buentello and roy nelson can beat lesnar….yes the mma fatties
by Headkick on
Nov 20, 2008 11:56 AM EST
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A little long and wordy for an “i told ya so!”
Being on the internet gives me a right...nay a responsibility to bitch about things
by beery_pbr on
Nov 20, 2008 4:01 PM EST
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Good question.
Admin? Someone?
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Nov 23, 2008 12:37 AM EST
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