UFC 91: Couture vs. Lesnar Results
by Luke Thomas on Nov 16, 2008 3:01 PM EST
in MMA News
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Match Winner Loser Method Round Time 1 Matt Brown Ryan Thomas Submission (Armbar) 2 0:57 2 Mark Bocek Alvin Robinson Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) 3 3:16 3 Jeremy Stephens Rafael dos Anjos KO (Punches) 3 0:39 4 Aaron Riley Jorge Gurgel Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00 5 Demian Maia Nate Quarry Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) 1 2:13 6 Gabriel Gonzaga Josh Hendricks KO (Punches) 1 1:01 7 Dustin Hazelett Tamdan McCrory Submission (Reverse Armbar) 1 3:59 8 Kenny Florian Joe Stevenson Submission (Rear-naked choke) 1 4:03 9 Brock Lesnar Randy Couture TKO (Punches) 2 3:07
So what does it all mean?
- Stephen Quadros believes Brock Lesnar's closest equivalent in MMA is Kazushi Sakuraba, but Sakuraba never wore the belt.
- Randy Couture didn't look particularly bad, but one did get the sense that the last year off did age him considerably. And certainly his ability to take a shot is not what it once was. It's all to be expected and nothing particularly bad, but it shouldn't be denied either.
- I am not concerned about the story line of a professional wrestler winning the belt in the UFC. First, this puts new life and energy into a very stale heavyweight division. Second, if and when professional wrestlers migrate they will not find the sort of success Lesnar has. Sean O'Haire, anyone?
- And can we finally put the "big men beat Randy" to bed now? Some suggested it would be Lesnar's ability to negate Couture's wrestling that would make the difference. While Lesnar was able to achieve top position and force Couture into defensive positioning, it was really the stand-up and clinch that made the difference. Couture was battered by Lesnar's knees in transition and ultimately succumbed to a right straight. Yes, he followed up on the ground and is lockdown from that position helped stabilize Couture while he tried to put him away, but the difference maker were the exchanges on the feet.
- There can be no more doubting the game of Kenny Florian. Particularly, anyone who thinks his wrestling is suspect is dreaming. And what really impressed me was how effortlessly he's been able to blend his game of late. All of the different elements to his striking, grappling, wrestling and so on all seem to strike the right balance. He absolutely deserves a title shot against BJ Penn and Penn would be wise to not take that fight lightly.
- Florian is a true example of what a drive towards constant self-improvement looks like. All that can be asked of one is that they do everything possible to improve themselves and try as hard as possible. Florian has done just that and deserves all the success he has achieved.
- I was also impressed with Florian's takedowns. He loves the lateral outside trip, particularly. He loves to be hip-to-hip, but to turn perpendicular into his opponents only to drop and drive his weight and use the outside leg to trip the opponent. It's simple, but highly effective.
- I don't see Dustin Hazelett fighting for a title anytime soon, but his Shinya Aoki-esque guard play is highly entertaining and will likely keep him in the UFC for quite some time.
- Jorge Gurgel is who we thought he is.
- I still do not understand why the UFC booked Josh Hendricks vs. Gabriel Gonzaga. In retrospect, there wasn't any way for Hendricks to realistically win the fight. Gonzaga is simply a class above Hendricks...on his worst day.
- As expected, the instant the fight hit the floor, Bocek schooled Robinson. Not all black belts are created equal.
- Kudos to the UFC for showing so many fights. It's a real treat when fans get their money's worth and something the UFC should be applauded for.
- Demian Maia is what I've been saying he is: the best pure grappler in the UFC. His whizzer game is absurd. He can sit to guard and immediately begin to work sweeps and whizzers. But more importantly, he understands whizzering and sweeping is delicate game of inches and ounces. His ability to work the rollover sweep and whizzer turnouts over and over again until he was able to set up the angle that allowed him to drive into Quarry and into side control was a thing of beauty.
- I've always said the guy to beat Anderson Silva is a guy like Maia: a fighter with decent wrestling and phenomenal BJJ. I don't think Maia has that sort of wrestling yet, but it may not matter. To be sure, Maia has a few contenders he needs to fight and defeat, but tonight's performance is a notice to everyone Maia is for sure working his way towards a title shot.
- Based on the highly unscientific analysis of traffic coming into this site as a rubric, I don't think UFC 91 will achieve 1.2 million PPV buys, but I never considered that realistic anyway. I do, however, beleive the number will be good and in an economy where consumer spending is way down that's a victory in itself.
- This was a landmark event in MMA. Not just because of what Lesnar can do for MMA, but because of how much attention to this fight ESPN and major outlets are paying to the sport. I'll have more on this later, but the level of coverage on ESPN is unprecedented and the character of the coverage is uncharacteristically fair. Strange that the era where a professional wrestler dominates MMA is the era that ushers in coverage of the sport with fair treatment by the largest, most important media outlets.
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I feel that Lesnar being champ somewhat diminishes the sport in the eyes of some casual fans and it definitely brings the sport down in the eyes of those critical of MMA. We will no doubt be hearing crap spewed all over ESPN and talk radio about how MMA is not legitimate because a former pro wrestler was able to come in and win the HW title in 3 fights.
Kornheiser, Wilbon and all those boxing purists are laughing their asses off right now because they have fire power in their arguments against MMA.
We are all welcome to disagree, but I think you’re overplaying this argument a lot. We’ll have to wait and see what happens, but I haven’t seen any indication that will be the case.
by Luke Thomas on Nov 16, 2008 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
It is definitely a wait and see type of thing but right now my knee jerk reaction is that Lesnar winning was not good. When I think deeper into it I think I’m bitter because a potential Nogueira/Couture match up was thrown out the window when Lesnar won. I was really looking forward to seeing that fight happen and now we most likely will not see it. With Randy having 2(?) fights left on his contract and no guarantee that he will be staying at HW I think a match with Nogueira is way out of the picture right now.
Instead what do we get for the unified HW belt? Either a rematch with Mir or Nogueira/Sapp 2… err. I mean Nogueira/Lesnar. Bah… I was bitter as hell when GSP lost to Serra and I got over it because it brought a lot of great fights. I will definitely have to wait and see how this all plays out.
Bring in Fedor now!
What is Dana White’s issue with not doing everything he can to get Fedor into the UFC. When Lesnar dropped Couture after hitting him with a waffle iron the first thing I thought was, “We really need Fedor now.” Any thoughts?
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Fedor won't sign.
The ball is, has been and will be in his court.
by Derek Suboticki on Nov 16, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
I kind of agree
People are saying how great this is for MMA because it’s bringing in new fans. I say: Who gives a shit?
Kimbo brought in new fans, too. And fans like these – who needs? We have some guy over at ESPN.com asking Dana White to give us an immediate Lesnar-Couture re-match. Give me a break… Add to that the WWEeediots who somehow take this as a win for pro wrestling and a loss for MMA, mix in a heaping spoonful of Brocksuckers who think he won some epic battle last night instead of the predictable ‘gimme’ that it was, stir in just a hint of people who think the UFC was in trouble before Brock saved them… ok I’ll end my ranting there :)
MMA needs fans. It doesn’t matter what type they are. They bring money, and that is very important. The only drawback is that it might interfere with the hardcores’ internet discussions… No one cares about pro wrestling vs MMA more than the MMA fans who are sensitive about MMA being considered fake by people who aren’t into it. That is crap. Fans are important, the attitudes of those who aren’t fans are not.
MMA had fans already. Now it just has more fans, of a very annoying type. The same kinds of fans that Kimbo brought with him – the kind that boo whenever a fight hits the ground, the kind that get bored if someone isn’t knocked out, the kind that EliteXC went after.
Well, if it weren’t for the fans TUF brought in, the UFC would be broke right now. Maybe it annoys you, but MMA depends on uninformed fans way more than it depends on informed fans.
There is a difference tho..
The TUF fans started to learn about the sport, and appreciate it for what it is. They didn’t come in calling everybody “hater!” and demanding that things change for their fleeting entertainment. The new breed sure is, and let’s face it, these new casuals will leave as soon as the next fad comes along.
Yeah. We need to get rid of the elitist attitudes. We don’t “own” this sport. Everyone is entitled to enjoy it however way they want to. If they want to be fair weather fans, then that’s their right.
I assume
that you had no problem with Kimbo and EliteXC then? Because otherwise your an elitist and a hypocrite.
Did you not read what you wrote earlier?
Yeah. We need to get rid of the elitist attitudes. We don’t "own" this sport. Everyone is entitled to enjoy it however way they want to. If they want to be fair weather fans, then that’s their right.
To which I replied:
I assume that you had no problem with Kimbo and EliteXC then? Because otherwise your an elitist and a hypocrite.
See? You have to believe that people are entitled to enjoy EliteXC and Kimbo, and you can’t say anything negative or else .. well.
And where did I say that people can’t enjoy Kimbo and EliteXC? Criticizing EliteXC is not the same as criticizing the people who enjoy it.
I didn’t say you did. Listen man, I like you, but I can’t keep doing your eyeballs work for them. Can’t you just look up? Do I have to keep copy/pasting whats been written? Or can’t you simply understand whats written the first time around?
Last time…
I assume that you had no problem with Kimbo and EliteXC then? Because otherwise your an elitist and a hypocrite.
BUT!!
according to the “if it brings in fans, it’s good” logic, the shadiness was fine. Kimbo was a draw, and if they helped him stay undefeated to keep fans watching, than it’s good for the sport.
(disclaimer: I do NOT agree with the above statement – just pointing out the silliness of argument that whatever brings viewers must be good for the sport).
Why would the fans brought in by Brock Lesnar be any different from those brought in by any other means? You are the one who is saying the people he brings in are somehow significantly different from any other person who doesn’t know MMA yet… You are the one who has a point to make. I don’t have anything to say except that you are wrong. An uninformed fan is an uninformed fan. Why would these particular fans be worse than those brought in by any other means?
Your point is that they got into it a few years ago? People aren’t born understanding Brazilian Jui Jitsu… Your point as I understand it is that somehow the people who Brock brings in are fundamentally different from those brought in by TUF… but you don’t explain why you believe that at all. You say they come in calling people haters or something like that. It is really a bunch of nonsense. What is different about them as opposed to anyone else who wants to see legitimate fights between talented fighters, but doesn’t understand how it works yet?
You are painting with some ridiculously broad strokes here. The individuals will do different things based on who they are individually. You need to see the forest for the trees and forget about your prejudice towards pro wrestling fans
As long as they bring in money to the sport I couldnt give a shit about the ‘boo boys’. They are helping fund the sport that I love and it gives us someone to bitch about on the forums.
Well said.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Nov 17, 2008 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t hate him. I dislike him immensely (tho if I did hate him, I still couldn’t use the power of hatred to influence matches… someone pointed that out last night).
Come on Myth,
you hate him, lol. I personally do not care what background anyone comes from. They are going to have to compete & fighters have the opportunity to expose their weaknesses just like with anyone else. His pure size is a huge factor so do not get me wrong, but that was his 4th fight & he is learning what he has to do to not get beat. He did not come charging across the ring like a fucking buffalo on speed, he actually prepared a gameplan & stuck to it effectively.
I really enjoyed the card last night, I had thought that it was going to be a boring one, but enjoyed watching the quick finishes.
Will we see Randy vs Anderson Silva at 205 next?
Whose is next for Gonzaga – the winner of the Cheick Kongo vs Musfta el-Turk fight?
Brock will help bring more fans into MMA, hopefully bringing about the downfall of fake wrestling, much like MMA is destroying boxing.
by Tra Telligman's Pec on Nov 16, 2008 10:41 AM EST reply actions
10-0 against cans. Its a nice record, but its meaningless. I’m not saying Carwin sucks, I’m just holding my evaluation of him until he is really tested.
Maybe it’s time the UFC stop feeding him cans then. 10-0, at least let him lose to Mir so people will start to take him seriously.
Oh wait… he’s not famous enough yet.
All wins and losses are not created equal.
If you perform like Brock did in his fight with “Murr” (tossin’ you a softball here, myth) then you prove you’ve got some serious ability and simply fell victim to a really weak rookie mistake.
This sport isn’t like most other professional sports, because in the UFC there are so many different levels of competition, that simply getting to fight in the UFC isn’t the same as actually getting signed to an NFL/NHL/NBA/MLB squad. The guys in those leagues are so close to each other talent-wise that the difference between greatness and suckitude is really pretty marginal. Not so in the UFC.
So basically each fight allows your ‘head coach’ (this would probably end up being Joe Silva, and Dana is more like the GM) to evaluate the talent of ‘prospects’ and make decisions on whether or not to bring them back for another tryout against the A-squad. Maybe you weren’t impressed with his showing, so you send him back to the B-squad.
This really isn’t that hard to understand.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
eh not really
I think it has more to do with who sells tickets than who has the skills. Sports entertainment, so to speak.
If you really believe that
then we can’t have much debate on the subject. Entertainment is a huge part of it, but so is profitability. And profitability suffers long-term if you just throw meat into the grinder, rather than placing fighters in situations where they have the opportunity to succeed.
It’s like the tree-huggers complaining about Weyerhaueser or Georgia Pacific or whoever raping the land of it’s trees..the people who honestly believe that don’t understand the first thing about A) Big Business, or B) The Environment.
If Carwin is The Next Big Thing, then he’ll be brought along, marketed and framed in whichever way can best maximize his short- and long-term earnings potential. It’s simple business.
So while I acknowledge (many times before this, in fact) that Lesnar’s meteoric rise is largely due to the entertainment factor surrounding him, it’s also got to do with if he’s ready for the fights. And c’mon, guys. This isn’t a plumber’s union where you literally CAN’T do anything until Year X of your membership because you haven’t Paid Your Dues. If a guy is good enough to win at a certain level, then he belongs at that level. The only thing which can keep him out, at that point, is his profitability.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Nov 16, 2008 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Please Please Please
Can everyone stop being so damn bitter and just take a few to enjoy this really really good card? At least wait until Monday when everyone is having a crappy day at work.
by iiowyn on Nov 16, 2008 11:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It was a great card. On paper it wasn’t too exciting but it turned out to be really really good. Plus we got to see just about every fight, which is how it should be anyways.
Absolutely. It’s been a long time since a night of fights have been so exciting. I only hope 92 can live up to this one!
If any card has a chance of living up to last night, it’s 92.
by Chris Nelson on Nov 16, 2008 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Me either.
I was really anticipating the wrestler vs. BJJ fighter in that fight and was completely denied. If I’d been given a little bit of that, then my opinion would most certainly have changged.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I think...
If Brock woulda fought Gonzaga on this card, he would’ve gotten finished in round 1. I don’t mind that Brock has won the belt because it will be short lived in my opinion. Randy needs to finish out his career in the 205 division. Maybe fight Wanderei and then a “retirement match” with Chuck.
No shit
I thought that fight was going to be some spectaular BJJ battles, but Florian just walked in and kicked ass. Much respect to the man.
Absolutely,
but does anyone really believe he has a prayer of beating Penn unless Baby Jay takes him lightly? If BJ comes in the way he has been lately there is nothing that Florian can throw at him that Penn is not superior at.
Absolutely
No one is unbeatable, and how many fights have we seen where the guy couldn’t lose (Serra-GSP for example), and yet they lost?
I look forward to the fight and will be rooting for Florian.
Great recap Luke, you really echoed alot of my thoughts.
This card was better than I gave it credit for coming in. Even though the fights on the main card finished quickly, it left time to show the undercard which had some really good matches and finishes.
I don’t think I’ve seen a UFC card yet with this many submissions. 8/9 finishes is a fight fan’s dream. There was really no stalling either (I still need to Brown, Stephens and Riley win), but the matches have all kept a great pace.
Even on a weak card (on paper), the UFC puts on a great show. Commentary was better than it’s been the last few events as well.
Nicewrite up Luke
I dont think Lesnar being champ will bring the sport down. He’s been training 2 years MMA with a very Reputable camp. IN his 3 fights in the UFC he hasn’t fought any cans or been protected. The man won fair and square. Also it was nice to see him acknowledge Couture and not make an ass out of himself doing the same antics he did after the Herring fight. With that being said, LAST Night was Great!. Btw. Luke I think Alvin Robinson is only a Brown Belt not a black belt. I could be wrong but i think Rogan said it during the telecast.
Concerning Brock...
I don’t really understand all the bitterness about Brock’s victory. Randy Couture is an icon in the sport, but that doesn’t mean Brock has to lose to him. Lesnar is still very raw. His technique needs work and he could definitely use more experience. With that said, he beat Randy Couture in his fourth pro fight. He can wrestle and is more athletically gifted than most heavyweights we see. Brock seems to have a great work ethic and a willingness to work on all aspects of his game. The potential for Lesnar to be a dominating heavyweight champion is there. I’m excited to see him fight again.
Totally agree about Maia – Anderson better start brushing up.
Brock Lesnar beat Randy Couture, and was respectful while doing it. What more do you haters want?
by Derek Suboticki on Nov 16, 2008 2:31 PM EST reply actions
"Jorge Gurgel is who we thought he is."
is dennis green ghostwriting for b.e. now?
THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!
as for the site traffic… i will say, personally, i didnt check this site (or any others) until after the main event. i was glued to the set, and with the quick finishes, and extra fights squeezed in, i barely had time to piss. then again… you might be referring to all around traffic (including before and after)
also… as a side note, how good did matt brown’s submission game look last night? that seemed like nothing more than a brawler on TUF. he’s progressed nicely. plus he looks like ferris bueller without his beard.
He is trying to distinguish himself from Luke Thomas.
by iiowyn on Nov 16, 2008 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nice write up
I tend to disagree with the notion that the extended rest aged Couture considerably. Couture looked the same as he did in his previous fights. Moving around the octagon quite well. He was bobbing and weaving as before. Couture pretty much looked the same. The only difference is being in the octagon with a superior athlete. He also took the knees and punches pretty well considering Brock’s power until the punch behind the ear.
The only person Couture should fight at heavyweight at this point is Minotauro. If that fight doesn’t happen, there are plenty of fights at light heavyweight.
The fight card was great. Great matches all around.
Nice post.
That Stephens uppercut was ridiculous.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
It is hard
to understand how that dudes head is even still in place after that shot, Holy Shit that was vicious!
Yeah,
those two had a great fight as well. Although it looked like two guys from the sidelines in P.E. class came out & banged, which is pretty cool. What was funny was McCrory was handed his glasses immediately after the fight. Is his vision that bad & if so he needs Lasik.
Florian has to be number 2 LW in the world now, behind only Penn. And I think he can win that fight.
He's lost to Sherk
Which makes him, at best, #3
If we can believe that the BJ Penn of today is better than the BJ Penn of two years ago, then why can’t we believe that the Florian of today is better than the Florian who lost to Sherk two years ago?
Mostly because I still don’t think he can beat Sherk.
by Derek Suboticki on Nov 16, 2008 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Sherk we’ve seen lately would try to have a boxing match with Kenny and get picked apart.
by Chris Nelson on Nov 16, 2008 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
The Sherk of the Franca fight was unstoppable, but the guy that showed up for Penn wasn’t the same fighter. Kenny would rip him apart on the feet.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Florian can beat Penn?
WHAT??? Unless Baby Jay goes into the tank if he loses to GSP, there is no way Florian beats him while he is at the top of his game like he seems to be.
Florian is the #2 LW in the UFC. But not in the world. Get it right.
Maia deserves a title shot but he should get Bisping first. I hope he does because he’ll embarrass the Brit. And then he’ll finally get the title shot he deserves.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
When does beating Herman, Macdonald, and Quarry mean you deserve a title shot??/
Maia hasn’t beat any of the top challengers in the division (Nate, Okami, Franklyn, Hendo, Cote, Almeda, Lietes)… do I think he could beat some of them? yes, but he hasn’t so he doesn’t deserve anything.
Maia probably doesn’t have the tools to challenge anderson, but like Palhares, I don’t think he has to tools yet to climb the ranks to even get to Anderson.
Prove it. I can consider Florian #2 in the world if I damn well please.
by Michaelthebox on Nov 16, 2008 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Ditto on Hazlett’s armbar. He could have submitted that with a push of the pinky. Maia was entertaining as well, and I’d say he’s two wins away from a title shot. I don’t get how people don’t find BJJ entertaining? The reversals and the technique are so much fun to watch. Way better than straight boxing. I guess you just have to know what you’re looking at.
One thing I liked about this card was all the class shown afterwards. After Gonzaga pummeled poor Hendricks, he gave him a quick hug. Lots of smiles after the fights. Couture and Florian both were all smiles. Brock didn’t do anything too assy, though I’m pretty sure he’s still sort of an ass, I suppose he was trained to be one from WWE.
I think that Gonzaga vs Carwin is a great matchup, or throw Kongo in there too. And I agree about Hendricks being in there against Gonzaga. Seemed like a man playing with a child.
Concerning BJJ and excitement
I was stoked to watch this card, and I loved all of the quick sub finishes. But if that’s how every card went from now on, I’d definitely lose interest. The thing that’s so great about MMA is that it can end in so many different fashions. It gets old watching guys stand and bang, or pick at each other from the outside, or just get smothered by a more dominant wrestler, or as I mentioned above, tossed into a three minute submission.
Just keep it mixed, and however that’s accomplished is secondary. Personally I hope the next card mixes it up a bit more, but I’m not gonna be super pissed if it’s a half dozen submission wins. If the next four go that way, though..yeah, I’ll get disinterested.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Nov 17, 2008 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
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