Brock Lesnar is Not a "Great Athlete"
Randy Couture vs. Brock Lesnar
I hear many, many people talking about how great an athlete Brock Lesnar is. I'm sorry, but I disagree strongly with anyone that anoints Lesnar as a "great athlete". He has done nothing to earn a title like that. If you watched "UFC 91 Countdown" you no doubt saw the story about Lesnar's quest to play for the Minnesota Vikings. In the piece his trainers say that he had better numbers in the 40 and bench(not a suprise) than Houston Texans' number one overall choice Mario Williams. His trainers also go on to say that he has the talent to play in the NFL, even though the Vikings cut him. Forgive me for being highly skeptical of that whole situation and I don't know the whole story, but if he truly had the talent to play in the NFL that's where he would be(its not like the NFL is picky about who they let in.) and to insinuate that he is as good an athlete as Mario Williams is, is absolutely ridiculous.
He moves fast for a big man and he's a great wrestler and that gives him a chance in this fight, but I just have a problem with calling the guy a great athlete. When you think of a great athlete in terms of an MMA fighter, among other things, you have to think of overall skill set, heart, chin and endurance. Three things that we have no idea of when it comes to Brock Lesnar. You know who is a great athlete? Randy Couture.
Couture has been the underdog many times and he has risen to the occasion to prove all the critics wrong in the past. I think he pulls it off again here against an inexperienced fighter. Couture will pull out all the old MMA tricks to consistently frustrate the big man. I think dirty boxing will be a huge factor in this fight for Couture in the stand-up. Of course in the highly likely scenario that Couture does end up on his back, I suspect he has a few suprises for Brock either scrambling or submission attempts. I'm picking Couture to end this fight late in the third round after Lesnar realizes that he is outgunned in skill set and fighting intelligence.- Couture by TKO Late in the Third Round.
For the rest of my picks Click Here.
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Its funny...
how you completely forgot to mention that he was a 2 time NCAA all-American and the 2000 NCAA Heavyweight Champion.
That doesn’t count for anything?
And as far as the NFL goes, despite not playing football since college, he was still good enough with just a few months of training. He got cut late. He would have made it had he pursued it longer.
and finally, what fuck does a “Good chin” have to do with being a good athlete?
Let me break it down for you -
Main Entry:
ath·lete
Pronunciation:
\ˈath-ˌlēt, ÷ˈa-thə-ˌlēt\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Latin athleta, from Greek athlētēs, from athlein to contend for a prize, from athlon prize, contest
Date:
15th century
: a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina
by cauliflower_ears on
Nov 13, 2008 11:43 PM EST
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He got cut late...
despite getting into scuffles with others.
Im big on criticizing other people being called athletes as it offends me as a former athlete (injuries derailed my baseball and football career). Same thing with music and the word ‘artist’. Every musician calls himself an artist when in reality there are very few musical artists out there, and even fewer still alive. Same thing with Nascar being called a sport offending me as an athlete. In my area people who defend Nascar (and noone in a million years will convince me its a sport) tend to make fun of Tennis, which is one of the hardest sports to play.
So I see where you are coming from, and im very much in the mold that gets offended and wants people to earn their reputations and potential…but despite all of that, I disagree. I feel he is in fact a great athlete with his NCAA background, his small run in the NFL, and his pro wrestling experience. While I certainly wont jump to say all pro wrestlers are athletes, Brock is one I take confidence in calling an athlete. You would be surprised what he is capable of. Check out the Wrestlemania at Safeco Field against Kurt Angle (ironically). He attempted a shooting star press (frontward backflip off top turnbuckle ropes). Sure he sorta botched it and nearly broke his neck, but its just a small example of what he is capable of. No big man in the right mind would try that. That takes heart, for sure. And so does pro wrestling in general. While the results are fake, executing things at a high rate is ridiculously hard.
*disclaimer: im not a Lesnar fan whatsoever, and I dont even like him…strikes me as a jerk. needs to hold more puppies. athletes tends to be versatile in things, and he has shown that…though he needs to be versatile specifically in MMA…his potential is through the roof. just needs to hold more puppies.
by Slica on
Nov 14, 2008 12:02 AM EST
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You = Fedor291
First sentence = Cauliflower
Rest = Fedor291
by Slica on
Nov 14, 2008 12:03 AM EST
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ugh
I’ve been searching and can’t find it. I’m pretty sure the Big Show did something similar once, in the WCW, but got in trouble for it.
by mythbuster on
Nov 14, 2008 10:29 AM EST
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Ahh, the old Big Show moonsault. That was before he got fat though.
by FRANKIE on
Nov 14, 2008 10:38 AM EST
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Right, thanks!
And as I recall, he managed to do it without knocking himself out (I can’t find any videos of it).
by mythbuster on
Nov 14, 2008 10:49 AM EST
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Big Show (then The Giant) never did a moonsault. They talked about him being ABLE to do one forever, but he never actually did it on television. Apparently he was doing them down at the Power Plant.
450ish-pound Vader used to do moonsaults, but he also played in the NFL and had really nice agility for a guy that big.
Anyway a moonsault is far, far easier than shooting star press. Terry Funk was doing moonsaults (well, most of the way) when he was 384 years old. Any scrub that is halfway through their first training camp in pro wrestling can get a moonsault going; that might sound offensive to people who do awesome moonsaults, but seriously, the moonsault is not that difficult. The shooting star is very difficult, especially if you’re about 300 pounds.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on
Nov 14, 2008 11:54 AM EST
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Big Show (then The Giant) never did a moonsault. They talked about him being ABLE to do one forever, but he never actually did it on television. Apparently he was doing them down at the Power Plant.
aha! That would explain why I can’t find any videos of it. Thanks :)
The shooting star is very difficult, especially if you’re about 300 pounds.
I can imagine. And let’s not forget the poor shlub he’s landing on (when he didn’t almost kill himself trying).
by mythbuster on
Nov 14, 2008 12:07 PM EST
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I chuckle every time I hear someone say, ‘his chin is a question so we can’t call him great’. I guess we can’t call anderson silva great.
I told you I can't build your candy house! It will fall apart, the sun will melt the candy, it won't work!
by mma_dude on
Nov 14, 2008 12:28 AM EST
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Yeah, Lesnar has sure avoided striking from incredible strikers the way Silva has. Silva also took shots from Henderson and Franklin without blinking.
by Michael Rome on
Nov 14, 2008 5:01 AM EST
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He is a great wrestler as I mentioned in the article and I’m not discounting that you have to have skill to be a pro wrestler, but to call him great is going a little far. Not to say he can’t be great in the future, but now he is simply an up and comer. In the MMA world to be considered a great athlete I think you need to have all the tools of the trade. I’m sorry but when I think of great athletes, I think of athletes that excel at the top level of their sport.
http://themmapost.com
by fedor291 on
Nov 14, 2008 12:31 AM EST
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We aren’t even talking about pro wrestling, we are talking about Collegiate Wrestling, one of the most competitive grueling sports there is. And Lesnar was a champion. As people have already said, he was amazing during tryouts for the Vikings, doing things men his size SHOULD NOT be able to accomplish. He is a great athelete, and there is no arguement against it that will stand.
by kyfm621 on
Nov 14, 2008 10:12 AM EST
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I won’t go the route of quoting the dictionary, but coming from a sports background (personal, academic and professional) I can say that the term athleticism is typically used to describe someone who shows remarkable results in strength, agility and endurance. Someone can be very strong…but not athletic. Someone can have good stamina…etc.
So, from my experience and what I believe is the accepted understanding of the term I can’t see how Brock is anything but a great athlete. We know he’s quick. We know he’s strong. And in the context of MMA we know he can go three rounds. I would say if anything athleticism is the one thing Brock is good at.
And in contention of your assessment that athleticism requires a skill set, it’s been said many times, especially GSP, that athleticism is a trait of the fighter. A person’s athleticism is not founded on their skill level in what they’re performing. In fact, someone’s athleticism is commonly noted when they are actually subpar at what they’re performing but able to produce results based on their athleticism.
by Simco on
Nov 14, 2008 1:46 AM EST
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I like your assesment Simco. Very good points all around.
http://themmapost.com
by fedor291 on
Nov 14, 2008 2:08 AM EST
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Pretty sure anyone that walks around at 285+, has linebacker speed, can bench 250 50+ times, and has a vertical of over 35", has wrestled, played football, and is now a MMA star is a great athlete if not amazing.
by lbk on
Nov 14, 2008 9:13 AM EST
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Hey Fedor291. Who is your favorite heavyweight, like we can’t figure it out. Not only will Brock beat Couture (much respect to Randy) he will beat the winner of the Mir/Nog match and if Fedor has the balls to step into the ring with him, he will face destruction as well. Your whole argument that he isn’t an athlete is foolish.
by The_Vig on
Nov 14, 2008 10:59 AM EST
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I would just like to add that by the end of the Brack and Randy fight young children will be yelling “Get that monster away from Grandpa, It’s killing him.”
by The_Vig on
Nov 14, 2008 11:02 AM EST
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He is such a terrible athlete, that the Vikings wanted to sign him to the practice squad, which he turned down.
I’m not a Lesner fan at all, but dude is a great athlete.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on
Nov 14, 2008 11:06 AM EST
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They asked him to play in the Euro league, too.
by Blackout612 on
Nov 14, 2008 6:45 PM EST
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Brock’s athleticism is the reason he’s a favorite coming into the fight. He could have been an Olympic athlete if he hadn’t done WWE. He’s the fastest and strongest guy in the UFC Heavyweight division (except Shane Carwin maybe). His football is pretty impressive considering one day he just woke up and said, “I want to be in the NFL.”, and almost made it.
by Ubernoober on
Nov 14, 2008 11:37 AM EST
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His football is pretty impressive considering one day he just woke up and said, "I want to be in the NFL.", and almost made it.
Remember his age when he did this. 28 I believe? Makes it even more impressive, since that’s when most football careers start to take the backside spiral for guys who even have tons of longevity.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Nov 14, 2008 12:13 PM EST
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Define 'Great Athlete' before dismissing someone as not one
Anyone who doesn’t get laughed off an NFL training field is, by definition, a great athlete.
by subo on
Nov 14, 2008 12:19 PM EST
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You had to find an exception...
Then again, sons of bitches can run – they got a lot of practice around the team locker room.
by subo on
Nov 14, 2008 12:24 PM EST
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David Akers is a BJJ bluebelt under Ricardo Almeida.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
by BJJDenver on
Nov 14, 2008 3:48 PM EST
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And you wouldn't mock kickers
if you had seen Josh Brown make a game-saving tackle two years ago for Seattle. Those guys are serious athletes, just not on the same superhuman level as the linemen.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on
Nov 14, 2008 7:43 PM EST
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Kickers are more finesse athletes like baseball pitchers or golfers. It takes athletic skill to precisely put the ball through the endposts, over the plate, or in the hole when under pressure.
by Ubernoober on
Nov 14, 2008 8:34 PM EST
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I undertstand the point you are trying to make
but I think it could’ve been framed better…you think he may be missing some key attritibutes that would make him “great” in terms of MMA, but that doesn’t take away from his overall skillset, which would indeed make him the definition of a “great athlete.”
by Omerta on
Nov 15, 2008 11:54 AM EST
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This is the most horrible argument I’ve read on Bloody Elbow in a long time.
This guy is confusing the term athlete with technically proficient mixed martial artist. An athlete is somebody who is physically gifted with strength, agility, speed, and the like; someone able to excel at most sports with much less training than the average man.
Brock Lesnar is basically a super-heavyweight yet moves like a middlewight. He’s stronger than everyone. His wrestling skills and accomplishments speak for themselves. He may not be the most technically advanced MMA fighter in the world (yet) but to say the guy is not a great athlete is – well, stupid.
by dropkick101 on
Nov 15, 2008 4:44 PM EST
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