Fabricio Werdum Squeezed Out of UFC

by Kid Nate on Nov 10, 2008 10:04 AM EST in News Comment 93 comments

Following a rocky time in the Ultimate Fighting Championship, capped by a surprising knockout loss to Octagon newcomer Junior dos Santos at UFC 90, Chute Boxe fighter Fabricio Werdum has left the promotion.

Sources tell MMAWeekly.com that Werdum's exit comes on the heels of a failed contract renegotiation following the loss to dos Santos. The Brazilian came into the fight with the expectation that he would soon be contending for a heavyweight title shot.

The knockout at UFC 90 derailed anything of the like in the near future, and spurred a renegotiation of his contract. Werdum and the UFC were apparently unable to come to an agreement. He has already opened talks with other promotions in the U.S. and Japan.

As Zack Arnold points out, the implications of this are real:

I do find it interesting that UFC has the contractual rights to not only be able to cut a fighter after they lose but to also ask a fighter to take a paycut or get released. In other sports (like professional football), there are buyouts and cuts but generally a negative impact towards a ’salary cap.’ In the world of UFC, management has the best of all worlds — they have complete and total control.

Michael David Smith adds:

That’s a stunning fall from grace for a fighter who once thought that he would get the first title shot against the winner of the current four-man UFC heavyweight tournament. But it’s not altogether unsurprising: Werdum was never a huge draw, and that loss to Cigano was devastating. And, as Zach Arnold notes, when it comes to fighter contracts, UFC has total control. In this case, they’re using their control to say goodbye to Werdum.

This is why, as much as I love the UFC's product, I do hope for a competent and honest competitor to emerge in the American market.

Werdum isn't the world's greatest fighter, but he deserves better than this. The part I don't like is their pattern of giving fighters one run and then never bringing them back.

If Werdum goes on a 10 fight winning streak in Japan would he be brought back to the UFC? Would he want to? Jorge Santiago is one fighter currently in that situation. I think Santiago would be a great addition to the UFC's middleweight talent pool, particularly if Anderson Silva moves to 205 or retires. But I doubt we'll ever see Santiago back in the UFC. Same thing for Werdum. He'd be an excellent test for their crop of young wrestlers -- Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, etc. Too bad we'll never get to see those fights.

HT BE Reader nitro

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Beat me to it, Nate. Here’s what I wrote in my writeup:

"In 2008, the UFC has let go four top heavyweights in Werdum, Tim Sylvia, Andrei Arlovski, and Mirko Filipovic (seems like so long ago, doesn’t it?). Combined with the inability to pluck Josh Barnett and Russian jewel Fedor Emelianenko from the remnants of Pride, and you have the only major division with significant talent outside of Zuffa control.

I’m interested in the economics of the situation. All six of the fighters Zuffa has passed on would surely be asking for six-figures plus, so is it strictly a cost cutting measure? In fantasy sports, there’s a draft strategy of “punting” a category. The idea is that you sacrifice value in one area to increase your efficiency in others. With the inability to land Fedor and having a small handful of young prospects, is the UFC practicing a similar strategy here?"

by Mike Fagan on Nov 10, 2008 10:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

I think Fabricio wrote himself out of the picture

When he started making noise about being jobbed for a title shot in favor of Brock. Had he beat dos Santos, he could’ve made the post-fight interview into an indictment of Dana and the UFC, argue for rankings to determine title matchups instead of Joe Silva, and generally become the pain in the ass that Tito wanted to be (but couldn’t due to his 7 year streak of being unable to finish anyone not named Ken Shamrock).

Instead, he got knocked the fuck out by a guy in his first UFC fight. First-time jitters are a real phenomenon, and for someone making noise about being passed over to get brutally KO’d by a newbie (while being noticably fat, by the way) is bad.

I’d love to know more about the economics of the situation – what he was making for show/win versus what he was being offered in lieu of the Dos Santos fight. Also, if he would be truly happy filling the gatekeeper role for Cain, Shane and others that Heath Herring seems woefully unprepared to fill. Finally, I don’t believe further diluting the heavyweight division with an American competitor is the cure for wait ails it.

by subo on Nov 10, 2008 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Werdum had a right to be upset and did not deserve to fight a no name up and comer, which he had nothing to gain from and everything to lose. Plus, I can guarantee you that the UFC wanted a paycut from Werdum after his last loss. I guess top 10 HWs don’t mean much to the UFC, since they only have a couple left. Couture will retire after 1 or 2 more fights.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2008 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

tate

This is from TATAME

"Estou surpreso com essa notícia. Minha irmã é quem negocia com o UFC e ela sempre entra em contato comigo antes de tomar qualquer decisão e até onde eu sei não houve esse contato do UFC com ela. No meu contrato ainda tenho mais quatro lutas que vão até 2010. Pelo cronograma que eles me passaram eu devo lutar em fevereiro, julho, novembro e abril de 2010. Inclusive estou me mudando para os Estados Unidos muito em função dos treinos com o Rafael Cordeiro visando o UFC", disse Werdum, que está no Brasil acertando os últimos detalhes para a sua mudança para os Estados Unidos já em dezembro.

“I’m surprised with this news. My sister is my manager and shes the one that deal with the UFC and she always contact me first before every decision is made and from what I know UFC didn’t contacted her. I still have 4 more fights left on my contract until 2010. From what they told me I should fight in february, july, november and april of 2010. In fact, I’m moving to the USA because I’ll prepare for those fights in the UFC with Rafael Cordeiro.” said Werdum that is finishing all the details to move to USA in december…

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http3A2F2Fwww.tatame.com.br2F20082F112F10%2FUFC—Werdum-nega-saida-do-UFC&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=pt&tl=en

by banter on Nov 10, 2008 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There’s a bunch of guys that get brought back to the company. Jake O’Brien is one that comes to mind. Guys like Santiago don’t come back usually because it’s in their financial interest not to.

by dropkick101 on Nov 10, 2008 10:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

“Guys like Santiago don’t come back usually because it’s in their financial interest not to.”

This is exactly why I don’t get Kid Nate’s reasoning.

Kid Nate, you want there to be honest competitors to the UFC. But you don’t like the consequences of that, which is that it makes more sense for those fighters who are doing well outside the UFC not to go to the UFC.

Better make up your mind, because you can’t have it both ways. If there are honest competitors to the UFC, there will always be situations where fighters will make a lot more financial sense outside the UFC than in it.

by Michaelthebox on Nov 10, 2008 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s more that I don’t think UFC would bring back Jorge Santiago or Matt Lindland at any price, no matter how low. Once a fighter has had their run with the UFC, they seem to be out forever.
Josh Thomson
Mayhem Miller
etc etc

by Kid Nate on Nov 10, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That has more to do with the fact that most of those guys make more financial sense outside the UFC than in the UFC. I mean, Miller is clearly a guy who makes more sense outside the UFC, and they don’t want Lindland at all.

If they get back Lawler (and they clearly want him) will you say that he’s an exception to the rule? Or is it simply a case where a fighter makes more financial sense to the UFC than to competing promotions?

by Michaelthebox on Nov 10, 2008 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good points and not only that, but the UFC has asked fighters to get some wins in smaller promotions before coming back to resume their contract. Instead of cutting them outright. Granted, I think this has mainly been employed with younger fighters, but it’s not like the UFC has rows of paper shredders lined up in the office on the Monday morning after PPV’s to shred up some contracts.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly. Its not that the UFC wants to get rid of these guys and never bring them back, its that guys like Miller and Santiago, by losing in the UFC and then doing well elsewhere, make themselves distinctly more attractive to competing promotions, who then pay them more than the UFC wants to. Essentially, this is the result of the free market competition that Kid Nate seems to think doesn’t exist right now.

by Michaelthebox on Nov 10, 2008 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the competition is limping along.
DREAM is essentially dead on its feet. WVR doesn’t have a TV deal.
Affliction is a joke.
That leaves Strikeforce and maybe WVR as an option for fighters among companies that’s likely to be around in a year.

by Kid Nate on Nov 10, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t deny that. But you are calling for more competition as a solution to the UFC having competition.

If the UFC had no competition, I guarantee you, a lot of those UFC drop outs would be back in the UFC. Its free market economics that results in them not returning to the UFC, not the UFC’s unwillingness to have them back. (Lindland excluded.)

by Michaelthebox on Nov 10, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I think it’s a case by case study, not a general rule. Actually, I know that for a fact. Names that come immediately to mind are Josh Neer, Dave Menne, Jake O’Brien, and Marcus Davis as guys who were released from a contract or finished it, only to be brought back later on. What happened in those cases was the fighter did well enough for himself to warrant a return to the biggest organization but not well enough that he was earning big pay days outside of the UFC. Hell, the comeback season of TUF was entirely comprised of guys who had previously fought in the company who were in no way blacklisted.

Then you have guys like Jason Miller and Jorge Santiago who are prime examples of fighters who didn’t win in the UFC, took their services elsewhere (see: Japan), and have performed in such a way outside of the UFC that they are able to earn a good living not company with a Zuffa contract.

There is no argument here. There is no opposing view. It is fact. A fighter signs with the UFC (see: every fighter ever). The fighter either under performs for what the UFC expected for it’s money and is cut (see: Fabricio Werdum) or simply finishes his contract. At such point the fighter is told that the door is open for a return in the future if the fighter goes out and wins a few fights in smaller organizations (see: Sean Salmon). Some fighters do exactly that and find themselves signing a new Zuffa contract (see: Josh Neer), some are lucky enough to have a spot open up and are brought back immediately (see: Jake O’Brien), and some turn themselves into stars somewhere else (see: Santiago, Mayhem). Only in very rare cases is there some personal issue where the fighter could be considered “blacklisted” (see: Lindland, Barnett) yet even in those cases good business will trump any personal animosity (see: Ortiz, Penn).

by dropkick101 on Nov 10, 2008 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

lol. Maybe I am talking in circles.
We’ll see if Werdum gets a better deal somewhere else.
Or maybe he’ll just fade away like Ricardo Arona.
And when Affliction collapses and the DREAM situation resolves itself. We’ll see how many good to great fighters don’t have anyplace to fight.
I think the difference between us is I remember the late 1990s when fighter after fighter left MMA for Pro-wrestling or just retired because there wasn’t enough money in any organization but PRIDE.
We were robbed of Frank Shamrock’s athletic peak because he couldn’t come to terms with PRIDE or the UFC and there was no 3rd alternative.

by Kid Nate on Nov 10, 2008 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I see where your thinking stems from as I’ll admit I don’t think I was even aware of the sport in the late 90s. But the fact is that the sport is different today and much bigger. The sport has exploded on such a big scale that I don’t think we’ll ever see a market where there is no place to fight for a talented fighter. If Affliction and Strikeforce magically collapse tomorrow, someone else will step right up and take their place with a big pile o’ money.

by dropkick101 on Nov 10, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

lol, not this “Japanese MMA is dead” business again.
Seriously, its not even close to that dire.

by smoogy on Nov 10, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if you’d post something illuminating I’d love to read it and would give it the credence you’ve earned. In the meantime Zack Arnold is posting every day — and he was right about PRIDE and EliteXC.

by Kid Nate on Nov 10, 2008 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But to be fair...

…wrong on a LOT of other things…

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 10, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Did you seriously just give Zach Arnold props for predicting the downfall of EliteXC?

I don’t think anyone outside of ProElite ever believed that EliteXC would amount to anything in the long term. I’m not so sure anyone in ProElite thought that, either.

by Brett Jones on Nov 10, 2008 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I had to get him props for something, he’s the vulture of MMA. No one tore into that corpse with the eagerness he did.

by Kid Nate on Nov 10, 2008 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You can easily build a counter-argument to that, with fighters who were gone and then returned.

Yves Edwards
Hermes Franca
Jens Pulver
BJ Penn
Babalu
Elvis Sinosic
Jorge Rivera
Joe Doerksen
Ivan Salaverry

And lots more I’m sure.

Plus, Mayhem was offered a deal immediately after his fight at UFC 52, but he decided to accept a big contract with Icon (then still known as Superbrawl) instead.

by ilostmydog on Nov 10, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He’s still friends with Dana, too (Mayhem). I guarantee he’d be welcomed back.

by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2008 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can’t agree with everything your saying here. Your bashing the UFC sayings Werdum deserves better, but how do you know it is not Werdum who has initiated the contract renegoiations?

by DJ Soma on Nov 10, 2008 10:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I think its fairly safe to say that Wedum didnt go to Dana White and ask that his pay be cut.

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Nov 10, 2008 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

how do you know if it was about a pay cut? How do you know Werdum wasn’t asking for verbage to be added guranteing a title shot? You are purely speculating.

by DJ Soma on Nov 10, 2008 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I do think it was a little unfair that he was released. However, before we jump to conclusion, perhaps it’s better if we get a clear picture and ask why?

Didn’t he recently receive a contract renewal? What was the new pay structure that the UFC felt he is no longer worth it? It couldn’t possibly be 80k could it?

Did the UFC cut him because of the loss or is it in addition to a few things such as:
(1) He’s another BJJ guy with okay stand up. Would he revert back to his ground game and play it safe after that devastating loss?
(2) Is the UFC protecting Lesnar and Carwin from Werdum?
(3) Dos Santos is also a BJJ guy with supposedly great stand up.
(4) With so many good up and comers, is Werdum the odd man out since he’s never shown himself to be exciting, but highly effective when he reverts back to his bread and butter: BJJ?

by cyph on Nov 10, 2008 10:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

interesting development

i wonder if we could see machida suffer the same fate, if he gets beat badly by thiago silva.

i’m sure from the ufc’s perspective, they’d rather put their money on better drawing (couture, lesnar) and up-and-coming (velasquez, carwin) fighters. if werdum’s not content to play a middle-of-the-road role in the division (see: kongo, herring, etc), and his performances aren’t proving him to be anything more than that, then he shouldn’t expected to be paid more than his supposed “worth”.

can’t say i was really chomping at the bit to see this guy fight anyone in the future.

by woooburn on Nov 10, 2008 11:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I would think Machida would have to lose more than one fight.
Werdum lost a stinker to Arlovski and then got flash KO’d.

by Kid Nate on Nov 10, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

good point

plus, i dont really see him losing to silva anyway!

by woooburn on Nov 10, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not so sure anymore. It’s obvious that the UFC is more interested in putting on exciting fights than in allowing the best fighters to face each other. While I like Machida, I don’t think anyone can say that he’s an exciting fighter. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are looking for a reason to cut him and grab another swing for the fences type. Excitement over quality.

by mythbuster on Nov 10, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree.

With an avg of 500K buys in the PPV fights I think the majority of those buys are from casual fans getting together with friends, frinking some beers and having a good time. The UFC realize this and want to cultivate an environment of exciting fights.

Werdum is a worldclass fighter and essentially just got cut for being boring IMO. So, yeah..if you’re worldclass and boring, you could get cut.

by lbk on Nov 10, 2008 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ya, because going to decision once in your first fight and finishing two via strikes and getting finished on your feet in the fourth gives you a rep for being boring. Well played. Coming in out of shape and not taking your opponent seriously is what loses you fans.

Everyone is speculating that it originated with UFC asking him to take a pay cut, yet no one has official word from UFC or Werdum about what happened. This likely originated in his unhappiness about getting excluded from the tourney. I’m sure we’ll find out from Werdum people shortly.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's safe to say..

that his style of fighting is incredibly boring.

by lbk on Nov 10, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Slap Punching

by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2008 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Come on, give him some credit. I wasn’t every really a fan, but he put it to Gonzaga in the second round of their fight and mounted Vera like it was nothing and was pounding him pretty good, even though the stoppage was premature.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

by cyph on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't say he wasn't talented...just boring for the most part. Sure there are a few exciting rounds here and there..overall though boring.

by lbk on Nov 10, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought the first round of the Arlovski fight was really entertaining. I blame Andrei more for not going in for the kill than Fabricio who really did everything he could to win.

by Kid Nate on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You mean the fight that Werdum layed on his back for 3 rounds hoping Arlovski would come to the ground with him?

you mean, the boring fight?

by lbk on Nov 10, 2008 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the 2nd and 3rd rounds blew but I don’t remember Werdum doing much butt scooting, mostly Arlovski dancing and jabbing and refusing to engage.

by Kid Nate on Nov 10, 2008 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

don't forget...

Werdum using open hand strikes..

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 10, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As long as they make fights like Silva/Cote, GSP/Fitch and Evans/Bisping, I will disagree with you. They could have easily made “exciting” fights at 205 for Silva. GSP/Fitch was a great fight, but wasn’t going two be two guys swinging for the fences as you seem to imply is the kind of fights they’re trying to make. I don’t even now where the perception is coming from lately that the UFC is trying to do this.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is true

And the idea that the UFC doesn’t want to have the best fighters is also way out there. Contrast this roster vs any in the history of MMA and it’s miles and away the best top to bottom collection of mixed martial artists, ever. Losing Werdum does little to damage that perception (particularly after this loss, which exposes the fact that he is a total liability on his feet).

by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2008 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Very strange. He is a good fighter that essentially got caught. Similar to Liddell. Only difference is, with Liddell they get PPV bys. With a guy like Werdum they will never get PPV buys. Let’s call this what it is: Releasing dead weight in an organization that has one bottom line: $$$.

by lbk on Nov 10, 2008 11:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Glad to see

at least one other person not assuming that this is all some scheme by the UFC.

It might be that he wanted to leave, perhaps they came to an agreement to end the contract.

Frankly, the guy wasn’t happy about being out of the 4 man title tournament, then gets knocked out like that. Perhaps he thought that he might have better prospects else where. Perhaps he didn’t like the competition he saw developing in the division.

Alot of unknowns in the situation to simply start tossing daggers at the UFC management.

by Razreshat on Nov 10, 2008 12:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

If you don't think the UFC was praying for Dos Santos to take Werdum out..

you are in lala land.

They are ALWAYS looking for excuses to get rid of boring one dimensional fighters. And frankly, I don’t blame them for that.

But trust me, they wanted Dos Santos to win that fight.

by lbk on Nov 10, 2008 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Give me a break! They put him up against an up and comer for the sole purpose of an easy win. The line was +500 for god’s sake! Lets not get carried away with the conspiracy theories now.

by cyph on Nov 10, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That is completely silly. If the UFC had wanted to get rid of Fabricio Werdum they wouldn’t of re-signed him to a new contract after the Brandon Vera fight. That’s the whole problem here, the UFC doesn’t have to look for an excuse to get rid of a guy (or come up with some kind of silly convoluted conspiracy theory), if they want someone gone all they have to do is send them packing.

by who me on Nov 10, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

About Zach Arnold's comments.

As Zack Arnold points out, the implications of this are real:

I do find it interesting that UFC has the contractual rights to not only be able to cut a fighter after they lose but to also ask a fighter to take a paycut or get released. In other sports (like professional football), there are buyouts and cuts but generally a negative impact towards a ’salary cap.’ In the world of UFC, management has the best of all worlds — they have complete and total control.

First I want to say I hate some of the apparent but somewhat unconfirmed UFC policies regarding their one-sided contracts.

But having said that look at all the other major sports and you realize that it took decades for all those sports to get fair treatment for their athletes.

Now I don’t think it will take decades for MMA athletes to get fair treatment but I do think it will take a few years for everything to shake out and for hopefully more than one company to get on more than solid ground where advancements in fair treatment for fighters can take place.

I do like that Mr. Arnold is saying these things because it draws attention to the situation but I just think it needs to be put into a little context to realize that this isn’t uncommon for sports in their infancy.

by mattman73 on Nov 10, 2008 12:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I’m looking into this but I’m almost sure it is directly related to the fact that his new contract included a title shot after his fight with Dos Santos, but was also subject to renegotiation upon loss (like any UFC contract). So when he lost they wanted to get rid of the title shot, and likely cut pay, since he’s not going to be on top or drawing any time soon, and it fell apart. It’s hardly as evil as people are making it out to be.

by Michael Rome on Nov 10, 2008 2:08 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

This, BY FAR, makes the most sense of anything that anyone’s said so far. Werdum has talked about his title shot a lot and it would probably be a major point of contention for him that he might not see it or the same money any time soon.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Everyone who reads BE knows that Rome is the one to listen to about the biz side of things.
I get pretty emotional when I feel like the fighters are being screwed.

by Kid Nate on Nov 10, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nah, not really talking about what you wrote, more so some of the comments.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly. I’m sick of the complaining sentiment in the blogosphere about fighter contracts. They sign mutually beneficial contracts – the UFC is willing to pay them a certain amount for their services and the fighter is willing to fight for that amount as well. This situation with Werdum wasn’t even an instance where he was cut in the middle of his contract – his contract was up. I have more sympathy for guys who get cut in the middle of their contract but at the same token, this is a fight business and to keep the money company you have to keep performing.

I think athletes in major American sports are grossly overpaid in certain instances and are babied when it comes to contract demands – and many times this spills out onto the field. Do I think that a fighter should have to worry about how he’s going to put food on his table? No. I don’t think anyone should have to worry about that. But at the same time I don’t think the UFC should be required to pay guys to fight who are simply not worth their contracted amount.

Whether or not Werdum was worth $80k a fight is arguable but in the UFC’s eyes, he wasn’t He lost a snoozer to Arlovski, beat a very game Gonzaga, questionably stopped hot prospect Vera, and got flash KOd by a newbie. While that record may be better than most it may not be sufficient to warrant such a big payday. Let’s call a spade a spade and stop always pointing the finger at the UFC and making the fighter out to be the innocent victim. Sometimes people are simply victims of circumstance.

by dropkick101 on Nov 10, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Im so fucking happy werdum is gone, i cannot keep my eyes open when he fight his best fights were his last two were he got knocked out and were he beat Vera who should have been at 205, thank you dana thank you

by RealIrish on Nov 10, 2008 2:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I can understand why the UFC would want to renegotiate after such a horrible loss (lets face it that was a devastating loss against a completely unknown fighter) but I hate to see stuff like this happen. I wonder if it had something to do with a title shot and him complaining publicly about it?

by who me on Nov 10, 2008 2:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ding ding ding

We have a winner

by subo on Nov 10, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, look at it however you want.

The way I see it, is they have one less guy who would be a threat, stylistically, to Lesner.

http://eliotmarshall.com/

by BJJDenver on Nov 10, 2008 3:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Guess Nog and Mir will be hitting the road soon too, huh?

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Would you really be surprised if they did?

While I love both guys, take a look at it. Nog is on the backside of his career, a loss to Mir and perhaps one more soon after that could easily lead to his UFC run being over. If Mir loses, where does he go from there? Much of the status he has right now, is due to the sub of Lesner.

Is there any doubt that the UFC is squeezing the last drops out of their more veteran HWs and looking to rebuild the division? Imo, Carwin, Cain, Lesner, etc are being looked at as the future of the UFC HWs.

I’m not saying anything is wrong with that, but look at the UFC’s recent HW moves. It seems pretty obvious to me what is happening.

And you can probably add Gonzaga to your list as well.

http://eliotmarshall.com/

by BJJDenver on Nov 10, 2008 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Barking up the wrong tree. They just don’t want a boring guy who bashes the company in public interviews.

by Michael Rome on Nov 10, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Craziness. Who wouldn’t want a guy like that in their organization?

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard Wade on Nov 10, 2008 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Regardless of how things turn out Randy is on his last run. Nogueira has had a real tough career but he is only 32(a year older than Brock Lesnar), he could be around for a long time or his body could be closing in on as much as it can take. Randy is the old generation but Nog could still be around with the next generation in the UFC if he can stay healthy.

Frank Mir is only 29 and he made the smart move of becoming the WEC commentator, he’s a Zuffa lifer regardless of how his career goes.

by who me on Nov 10, 2008 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed I could add Gonzaga. I just think you’re overstating the situation, as I don’t really think you’re the tinfoil hat wearing type. I don’t think you’ll see Mir or Nog going anywhere anytime soon, barring a terrible losing skid. UFC has had plenty of opportunity to cut Mir and did not, not to mention devoting a TUF season to them. I’m trying to think back, but is there any TUF coach not still with the UFC other than Ortiz(and he’ll likely be back) and Shamrock?

I think the problem is finding legit BJJ guys at HW more than anything. I could just be just talking out my ass, but you don’t hear about too many. Plus, all the guys you mention are strong wrestlers. If the ground game is boring and the UFC doesn’t like it, then why continuously bring in guys who can keep a fight on the ground and grind out boring decisions?

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No, of course. In actuality, I agree with your sentiment.

Of course Werdum has the reputation of being “boring”, though I felt he has shed that degree. I think the bottom line is his value to the UFC does not match his ranking. Is he a top 10 fighter? Yes. Is he worth top 10 money to an org like the UFC? Probably not. It sucks for him, but that is just the business side of it. If he was willing to fight for average pay, he would be with the UFC right now.

I do think the UFC is “cleaning house” to a degree, and banking on emerging stars like Lesner, Carwin and Cain. As I stated, there is nothing wrong with that, especially when you consider the age/miles on the top HWs.

As for Mir, I’m a fan, but if loses value to the UFC as a fighter, he will be gone, though his announcing gig may buy him more time than another fighter that didn’t have it.

Keep in mind, my initial statement was meant to be taken with a grain of salt. I don’t think the UFC would ever clear the way for a fighter by cutting ties with guys that don’t match up well.

http://eliotmarshall.com/

by BJJDenver on Nov 10, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

by mythbuster on Nov 10, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Werdum got screwed and he had no business fighting Dos Santos to earn his title shot. He is a top 10 HW and had beaten Gonzaga and Vera at the time.

He has a right to be upset after being squeezed out of the title for Lesnar and Randy and then being scheduled to fight someone that would only be a lose lose for him. Who wouldn’t be mad if you had one lousy day at work and your promotion was taken and in fact, you were asked to take a pay cut.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2008 4:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

If I was only asked to perform 4 times a year, was paid even though I don’t produce any revenue, and was out maneuvered in some kind of negotiation by a nobody with no experience, I might just understand.

by Michael Rome on Nov 10, 2008 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The difference is that your and my salary is not contingent on people paying to watch us work on that particular day.

by Brett Jones on Nov 10, 2008 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Then why isn’t Vera gone then?

To some extreme to make a point:
Or Anderson Silva after his last performance?
Why is Houston or Gurgel still with the UFC?
Why is Leben still with the UFC after DUI’s and taking steroids?

Who you are to the UFC matters, and they didn’t think much of Werdum, obviosly.
Don’t be shocked if this scenario happens more often if you don’t have a sword tatoo on your chest.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2008 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Vera represents potentially big returns when the UFC goes to the Republic of the Philippines.

Anderson Silva has a proven record of entertaining matches and his box office returns appear to be growing. He did not lose. The comparison to Werdum is silly.

Alexander, Gurgel, and Leben are not sniffing an 80k payday, nor are they complaining about the UFC’s booking philosophy in public while simultaneously calling for a title shot of their own.

Instead, let’s ignore all of that and acquiesce to the fact that they will change the name to Ultimate Brock Lesnar and fire all Heavyweights with a different name and/or upper body tattoo. Come on.

by Brett Jones on Nov 10, 2008 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly my point. Your arguments prove what I am saying. It’s what Zuffa thinks of you rather than how good or accomplished you are that matters.

Werdum was getting paid due to his experience and good track record, so he has merit.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2008 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rather, it’s your value to the company that determines how much they’re willing to pay you. There’s nothing remotely wrong with that.

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard Wade on Nov 10, 2008 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

MMA SuPreMaCy

what does brock have anything to do with werdum’s scenario? it was also brought up that werdum could have asked to be released after losing just like cro-cop and sylvia did. one statement says that he has already opened up talks to american and japanese orgs. thats pretty quick for just being “cut”.we dont know until all the facts are proven. why do you seem to focus so much on the ufc’s faults and not their positives? the good far out wieghs the bad imo.

by bdw on Nov 10, 2008 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Werdum Boring?

There was nothing boring about Werdum’s last three fights unless you consider smoking Gonzaga, pounding out Vera, or getting KO’ed by Dos Santos boring.

His only “boring” fight would be his first and was gainst a former UFC HW Champ Arlovski, when Werdum’s stand up was lacking.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2008 5:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

How is MMAWeekly going to live this down?

Werdum refutes the claim that he is out of the UFC. He expects to fight again in February 2009 for…wait for it…the UFC.

by cyph on Nov 10, 2008 7:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ran it through Google Translate, so be forwarned this is what it turned out verbatim

"The defeat for Junior in UFC 90 seems to have affected not only the plans Fabricio Werdum, who dreamed compete in the UFC’s heavyweight title, but also its future in the organization. Reports in U.S. media that reported having tried to renegotiate the UFC contract with the world champion of Jiu-Jitsu and the ADCC, but that both would not have reached an agreement, which would have made Werdum reoccur his contract. "

“I am surprised by this news. My sister who is negotiating with the UFC and she always get in touch with me before taking any decision and as far I know that there was no contact with her UFC. In my contract I still have four more fights going until 2010. On the timeline they passed me I should fight in February, July, November and April 2010. Even I’m moving to the United States greatly depending on the drills with Rafael Cordeiro targeting the UFC, "said Werdum, who is in Brazil set the details for its latest move to the United States as early as December.”

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe no one sent him the memo, he doesn’t seem to be in the list of UFC fighters on UFC.com either.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He is the person in “negotiation” that MMAWeekly reported. Why would someone in a negotiation need a memo? You can’t negotiate without the second party. And a missing bio from UFC.com is hardly evidence of anything.

by cyph on Nov 10, 2008 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It could be evidence of their website’s continued crappiness.

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard Wade on Nov 10, 2008 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Huh? MMAWeekly says he’s gone in the article. Are you referencing a different one? It’s been clearly stated that he’s out of the UFC in several articles and now he’s clearly stating it’s news to him.

Ans please, show me one top UFC fighter who’s bio isn’t on UFC.com and then get back to me. Assignment is due tomorrow.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

For someone who’s wrong, you sure are a cocky mofo.

Why do think that MMAWeekly’s “source” is correct but the actual fighter’s words are wrong? “Assignment due tomorrow?” Jerk.

by cyph on Nov 10, 2008 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, pretty cranky huh? Do you think that the fighter’s agent might run something as small and unimportant as I don’t know, leaving the org, bu the fighter? Nah, would never happen. Not to mention he specifically says that she talks to him before making decision. If you were a fighter would you want your agent walking away from your contract without so much as a word. Be realistic before calling me a jerk.

So they didn’t remove Lutter. Show me a top UFC fighter who’s not on the there, like I asked, and I will apologize. If you act aggressive in a response to I comment I make, I feel free to respond in kind. You want respect? Be respectful. Simple as that.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

UFC HP

ufc’s hp also has tito,nakamura,schoenauer and evan tanner STILL on their bio’s. i dont think that’s a reliable source.

by bdw on Nov 10, 2008 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And I said it seems like he’s not on there. I did not say “OMG HE IS NOT ON THERE, THERE IS PROOF HE HAS TO BE GONE.” I responded to myself as an afterthought, but I guess I shouldn’t have seeing as people hate me now :(

Werdum was on there and now he’s not. That’s all I’m observing.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ok. i didnt mean to accost you or anything. i should have said that MMAWEEKLY should not be using the ufc’s bio’s as a reliable source as to whether a fighter has been let go or not.

by bdw on Nov 10, 2008 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ya no, I know what you’re saying and that it’s not at me, it was for the other peeps. And I agree that that should not be used as a source for an article.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would use a fighter being listed on UFC.com as a fact.

See Ken Shamrock.

by Phildo on Nov 10, 2008 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ya, I know they wouldn't want a hall of famer listed in their fighter bio section. Bastards.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You did come off as a condescending jerk when telling people their assignment was due tomorrow to find a ufc fighter who was in the ufc and not on there.

You look pretty foolish being so arrogant when the website is full of errors.

by Phildo on Nov 10, 2008 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, it was to one person and that’s Cyph. He responded to me first and I found it to be snarky, so I responded in kind. You’re allowed to interpret mine and his responses as you will. I won’t hold it against you. I try not to make decisions about people based on the internetz and discussions within it. I’m sure Cyph is a good guy.

And I don’t think I look foolish at all. I still want to see a top fighter who is in the UFC, who’s not listed in the bios. My observation, which still stands true, is that Werdum was in the bios and now is not.

by LiuLang on Nov 10, 2008 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Again

This is from TATAME

“Estou surpreso com essa notícia. Minha irmã é quem negocia com o UFC e ela sempre entra em contato comigo antes de tomar qualquer decisão e até onde eu sei não houve esse contato do UFC com ela. No meu contrato ainda tenho mais quatro lutas que vão até 2010. Pelo cronograma que eles me passaram eu devo lutar em fevereiro, julho, novembro e abril de 2010. Inclusive estou me mudando para os Estados Unidos muito em função dos treinos com o Rafael Cordeiro visando o UFC”, disse Werdum, que está no Brasil acertando os últimos detalhes para a sua mudança para os Estados Unidos já em dezembro.

"I’m surprised with this news. My sister is my manager and shes the one that deal with the UFC and she always contact me first before every decision is made and from what I know UFC didn’t contacted her. I still have 4 more fights left on my contract until 2010. From what they told me I should fight in february, july, november and april of 2010. In fact, I’m moving to the USA because I’ll prepare for those fights in the UFC with Rafael Cordeiro." said Werdum that is finishing all the details to move to USA in december

by banter on Nov 10, 2008 8:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs