UPDATED: Statement Demanded From WAMMA

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 9, 2008 10:16 AM EDT in News Comment 20 comments

A hat tip to the Bronzeville Bully for posting a link and some details from Rob Maysey's blog on seeming contradictory behavior from WAMMA officials. I had not yet read Rob's article on the history of sanctioning bodies and WAMMA's role in MMA until I saw Bully's fanpost. While long-time readers of the site will no doubt recall that Mr. Maysey and I have not seen eye-to-eye in the past his work is very good on this subject, his facts are in order and we seem to be on the same page in regards to sanctioning bodies in MMA.

After reading the article I was left feeling a touch upset at the notion that Dave Szady (WAMMA CEO) and Mike Lynch (WAMMA COO) may have been lying directly to me with their statements that WAMMA would never seek a sanctioning fee from any fighter or promoter. This is not something I take lightly and as such I have sent the following e-mail to Dave and Mike as they both said to contact them to address any rumors..etc:

Subject: Sanctioning Fees? From Brent Brookhouse of BloodyElbow.com

Michael and Dave,

I conducted an interview with you back in June for our website (BloodyElbow.com) and during that interview I asked you specifically if you would be charging sanctioning fees from either fighters or promotions in the future and you were both very steadfast in your response that this would never be the situation. Rob Maysey of MMAFA.TV contacted you more recently to ask in more explicit language if WAMMA would be charging sanctioning fees of promotions or fighters and received yet again another strong response that this would never be the case.

However, as Maysey pointed out, the materials you provided to athletic commissions at the ABC Convention stated that you will "receive revenue from title sponsors, online portal subscriptions, sale of unique digital content, merchandising, and in the future sanctioning fees."

Obviously this does not fit with what you have told myself and my site's readers. Speaking frankly this smacks of the kind of dishonest doubletalk that has made people question WAMMA's intentions from the start and harkens back to the boxing sanctioning body model that is so roundly dispised. If you can, as you have both stated, say with 100% certainty that you will never charge fees from a promotion or fighter than that language had no reason to be included in the materials presented to athletic commissions and leaves a lot of answering for your organization to do to the fans of this sport.

It is my hope that there is some sort of misunderstanding here and that you were not just telling people what they wanted to hear until you gained the necessary foothold in the sport to begin charging fees. Our readers will be expecting a statement from your organization explaining this contradiction and I will be posting this e-mail exactly as it is sent to you on our site in the interest of full visibility for our readers on our communications.

Thank you,
Brent Brookhouse

The ball is in their court now, any lack of a response will be taken by myself to mean that they are indeed acting like children crossing their fingers under the table while making promises to our faces.

MMA fans don't want to be told what they want to hear...we all just want the truth. Updates to come as I get them.

Update: Dave Szady responded (twice) both presented without any editing:

Email #1:

Brent. We will NOT be charging sanctioning fees. Our revenue will come from our sponsors. We will NOT ask for a percentage of the fighters purse. This was also made clear in Canada during our presentation. The literature may have had wording that was being considered early on but dismissed as not a good option. Thankyou for your concern. We want to be totally transparent, above board and an organization of utmost integrity that can help to. Increase the legitimacy of mma and ensure its longevity

Email #2:

Brent. The literature will be corrected. Bottom line we do not charge and will not charge sanctioning fees. We do not and will not take a percentage of a fighter's purse. Thankyou for bringing this to our attention

Thoughts?

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Comments

Very interesting.

by Luke Thomas on Oct 9, 2008 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I call....

Bull $hit

by Nick Travaglini on Oct 9, 2008 10:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't want to say I think they're lying...

but at best they come off as a bit of a sloppy organization by saying that they didn’t have their literature in order before a fairly important convention. It doesn’t instill much of a sense of confidence in them as a mature organization. And yeah, they’re still “young” but you can’t claim youth while claiming that you’re the gold standard.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 9, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

Did they just grab a bunch of “literature” from some other Sanctioning body and put a WAMMA sticker at the top? Or did someone in their employ type something out, and then reproduce it for distribution to the ABC meeting without them even giving it a cursory once-over to check that the points were laid out well?

by asa on Oct 9, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Complete agreement, Brent.

Did anybody else see this whole enterprise as a little fishy from the beginning? I mean a sanctioning body that doesn’t work with the largest and most important (admit it, haters) promoter in the sport? I know that Zuffa has shown no interest in this kind of effort (given their history with cross-promotion, you can see why) and they don’t really have a financial motivation to join up, but the idea of doing all of this without them is nuts. It’s like having a sanctioning body for American Football that doesn’t work with the NFL.

I mean, look at their LHW standings:

Forrest Griffin (UFC)
Quinton Jackson (UFC)
Lyoto Machida (UFC)
Rashad Evans (UFC)
Mauricio Rua (UFC)
Wanderlei Silva (UFC)
Chuck Liddell (UFC)
Thiago Silva (UFC)
Keith Jardine (UFC)
Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou (UFC)

How exactly is that going to work out without the UFC’s participation? And given that Forrest is the champ of the organization that employs all ten of the top ten LHWs, why isn’t he the undisputed champ?

And that’s not to mention that DREAM, WVR, and Sengoku aren’t signed up – what part of the “world” does that cover?

Beyond that: where were they going to make money if not these kind of fees? Donations from struggling promotions seeking legitimacy? And how was this kind of cross-promotion going to work? Will EliteXC be looking to have Bigfoot fight Fedor? What happens when he loses? What’s the effect on EliteXC’s (already miserable) standing?

(Typo: s/fighter than that/fighter then that/g)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Oct 9, 2008 10:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I noticed the typo, but not until I had already e-mailed it to them, and I wanted to post my e-mail exactly as typed.

As for where they’re making the money. If I understand correctly right now they’re just looking for sponsors to sponsor these title fights. I don’t know if that means they want like the WAMMA Heavyweight Title Fight Presented by Pepsi or what. But they claim that is their main source of income for these title fights is sponsorship.

Not saying that is true or false…just saying what they’re saying.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 9, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The story will be that they can’t make Forrest the Undisputed Champ because they won’t be able to make sure he fights whoever they determine the next #1 contender is.

But that argument is bogus to me because they don’t organize any fights.

They said AA/Barnett was an eliminator, and then that doesn’t happen. I want to know what would have happened (can happen) if Fedor decides he wants to fight in Japan for NYE. Is it for the belt? Is it a non-title match? Is he stripped for not fighting who they said? If somehow Fedor loses does he lose the belt?

by Phildo on Oct 9, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They said in the interview...

that there is a 12 month period. You must fight a top 10 fighter within 12 months or you will be stripped. Which is hard to see how they could do. Say they crown a guy at 205 somehow…their rankings being dominated by UFC fighters make it impossible for that person to fight a top 10 opponent…unless they were to manipulate their rankings.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 9, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the requirement is just “A top 10 fighter,” they can get a bunch of their credibility in my book by proclaiming the winner of Forrest Rashad as the WAMMA champion. If Dana won’t let them in cage (which he won’t) they can just have a press conference before or after, or even just put on the website that he is the champion. I said the same thing before Fitch/GSP, but that was before I read that the only requirement is that they have to fight 1 top 10 opponent in 12 months.

I can’t envision a scenario (besides injury) where the UFC LHW and WW champion will go a year without fighting a top 10 fighter. And to be honest, according to their rankings, I can see BJ and Anderson Silva being able to meet the requirements also. They don’t have any of the sponsors set up yet, so they can’t say they won’t do it because they need to be in the ring to give the sponsor their money’s worth.

If they really care about proving who the best is, and they’re not just trying to grab a piece of the pie, they can name champions without being in the ring.

by Phildo on Oct 9, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That sponsorship idea sounds like it’s just as muddy as the rest of their plans. What happens when Budweiser pays to be the sponsor for the Heavyweight match and the rest of the event is sponsored by Miller? (Or Honda/Ford, whatever.) This is already hard enough with possible conflicts between the fighters and the promoters – tossing the sanctioning body into it sounds like a nightmare.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Oct 9, 2008 10:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

(Meant to be a reply to Brent above – dammit. Sorry.)

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Oct 9, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it the form, man?

Having it at the bottom of the comments seems weird, design-wise. It suggests that you’re commenting on the comments and not the post, in which case it would be at the bottom of the post, with previously posted comments below.

Does SB have different templates or one that can be customized? Hmmm?

by asa on Oct 9, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do only make that mistake when I’m replying to the last comment.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Oct 9, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Talk is cheap.

We’ll see when they actually change the literature. Only actions matter.

by pud333 on Oct 9, 2008 11:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In the picture...

What the hell is Tiny Tim doing there…Worst combination of hairstyles in one room…ever..
I agree that this has a slim to no chance of success if the UFC is not onboard…If the UFc was a smaller org, then maybe they could get away with leaving them out. Since the UFC has the highest concentration of “ranked” fighters, their cooperation is paramount.

by Kel on Oct 9, 2008 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There is a certain reality here

that drives me nuts. I have heard since day one that the people in the driver seat of this sport are scum and as I get more and more involved I am starting to believe it. No one is organized nor a competant business person. It is unbelievable to me that no one can successfully run a promotion besides Dana white and Scott Coker. Case in point:

1. Affliction- They way overspend on fighter salaries. The say they will have 3 shows by february, yet there second isn’t even solidly scheduled for january yet. They spend so much that they need to involve a boxing promoter and taint there product.
2. EliteXC- they are 55 million in the hole in a little more than a year. They have already made wholesale changes at the top of management with Gary SHaw and company replaced. They made a national tv deal where they are contiually losing their ownership and production power over there product. They banked their whole PR push on a 34 year old street fighter. They have a lightweight champ who doesn’t want to fight. I could go on
3. Dream- Picked up where Pride left off, including there TV and overall money woes. Seem to be on the verge of losing their TV deal and potentially going out of business after less than a year of existence. I could go on
4. World victory Road- Less than a year of existence and had to get bailed out by one of the largest companies in Asia. No TV deal. Accusing fighters of faking injuries. I could go on
5. IFL- oh wait….nevermind
6. WAMMA- Use Big John McCarthy and Pat Militech as a front then get caught in there own web of bull. A governing body that doesn’t make money? Please, spare me.

No wonder there are so many UFC-or-nothing fans. They are the only stable company out there. Yes they make there mistakes just like everyone else, but they know how to make a profit and stay in business and offer job security to a fighter, and I think that has to be the most important thing. The money and sponsorship will come in time, but you need to stay in business for it to happen, and the UFC is the only one who has shown they can. Why would they bother to align themselves with anyone else? WAMMA just makes no sense. Silly waste of time.

Sorry, I had to rant.

by Nick Travaglini on Oct 9, 2008 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

NICK

it was a very intelligent, fact filled, and honest rant btw.

by bdw on Oct 9, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One more thing

I can add on 2 more things…
EliteXC- paying fighters to stand up and ignore 50% of the sport. Reprehensable beyond words
Affliction- Apparently Arlovski knew about the Roy Nelson Fight a full two weeks before Nelson did. IF this is true, just as reprehensable as what Elite Xc did.

This sport needs an enema

by Nick Travaglini on Oct 9, 2008 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy

The weird thing about WAMMA is it purports to get the same thing that UFC fans want – the best fighters in the world fighting each other – but without rewarding Dana White in any way. As awesome as that sounds, it looks like the only way the best fight the best will be under the UFC banner.

A. Anything with Donald Trump’s fingers wrapped around it automatically sucks (see Atlantic City). B. How on earth do they plan on making money?