EliteXC Can't Fail Too Soon For Me
I've generally been supportive of EliteXC's efforts to launch a major-league competitor to the UFC.
But this weekend's debacle was the last straw.
Not because of the Kimbo/Shamrock debacle either. Although that was the revealing instance that gave away their fundamental contempt for Mixed Martial Arts as a sport.
Steve Cofield outlines exhibit A -- refs restarting fights when one fighter has achieved dominant position and is working for a submission:
He actually had Arlovski in a real predicament working a kimura with 2:49 left in the first. Ortiz apparently not understanding what a kimura is, called for Nelson 'to work to improve his position' three different times over the next 20 seconds. Arlovski freed himself from the kimura at 2:28 and Nelson was still in a dominant side-control position. For some inexplicable reason, the referee stood them up FOUR SECONDS LATER!
This is the pitfall of holding big events in states with inexperienced MMA referees. The crowd at the Bank Atlantic Center was one of dumber groups in recent history. It seemed like they booed anytime that a fight went to the ground or there was a clinch. Ortiz officiated to the crowd's response instead of watching the fight.
And Fightlinker outlines exhibit B -- the hanging offense -- bribing a fighter to keep the fight standing:
Petruzelli: THE PROMOTERS KINDA HINTED TO ME, AND THEY GAVE ME THE MONEY TO STAND AND TRADE WITH HIM. THEY DIDN’T WANT ME TO TAKE HIM DOWN. LETS JUST PUT IT THAT WAY.
This is just too much. MMA is MIXED martial arts, not sloppy standing brawls for fighters who aren't good enough to make it in boxing or kickboxing.
They've set the sport back enough by buying up and then running into the ground a bunch of smaller promotions who were making money on their own. They need to stop.
BE reader szucconi spells out
This is fixing a fight, make no mistake. Using money to give a fighter an advantage is fixing a fight. Petruzelli maybe didn't get it. This is not a post fight bonus. The UFC gives bonus' for sub, KO, and fight of the night. The sub and KO bonus are win bonus' so they can't be looked at as fixing. Fight of the night is for exciting fights and both fighters involved get it. It gives you no incentive to lose. This type of prefight "hint" with money offered behind it to stand is fixing. Of course I assume they thought Slice had the advantage standing and it didn't work out the way they wanted, but it seems like a clear example of trying to affect the outcome.
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41 comments
Comments
Oops. I just made a fanpost about the Petruzelli comments.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Oct 6, 2008 5:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's cool
didn’t mean to stomp on your action
by Kid Nate on Oct 6, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh it’s cool man. Did you want me to delete it?
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Oct 6, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made one too, but you do a good job with it. You just didn’t make the point that this is what fixing is.
by szucconi on Oct 6, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the credit. I just wanted you to point out somewhere that the fix was in. This kind of stuff makes me think of Shamrock v. Cung Le. God only knows why Shamrock didn’t take him down, but my guess is that it was motivated by money. Either he got some “hints” from ProElite or he was seeing a rematch and dollar signs in the future. Could have just been his ego, but I’ll guess we will never know. It left a sour taste in my mouth.
by szucconi on Oct 6, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was all Frank’s ego. I can pretty much guarantee that.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Oct 6, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and let's not undersell Cung Le
his native fighting style — San Shou emphasizes takedowns and throws plus he’s got a decent wrestling background.
The glaring hole in Le’s game is his lack of jiu jitsu, not takedown defense. I don’t doubt Shamrock when he says he thought Cung would gas in the later rounds, I just think he miscalculated how hard Cung Le kicked.
by Kid Nate on Oct 6, 2008 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats a good point, but I didn’t like it. I think Le was tired, so Shamrock was on to something, but he didn’t count on Le’s will to push through being tired. It was something that wasn’t tested before. I still think it was ego that made him not take Le down.
by szucconi on Oct 6, 2008 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
could be ego for sure
I just don’t think it was some attempt to put Le over.
by Kid Nate on Oct 6, 2008 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made one too!
It has more juicy quotes in it and a completely different conclusion.
by natyong on Oct 7, 2008 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More quotes, good, diffrent conclusion, wrong.
by szucconi on Oct 7, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Props to our man Nick for typing out that portion of the interview – I think Fightlinker just reposted it.
I can’t say I want EXC to fail, ‘cause it’ll just mean fewer options for fighters and less free MMA for us fans, but man they’re making it hard to root for them with all this bullshit.
by Chris Nelson on Oct 6, 2008 5:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
dude when you’re fixing fights… you better want them to fail as they are ruining the sport.
by mmalogic on Oct 6, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you not want a promoter that fixes fights to fail?
by Richard Wade on Oct 6, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t get me wrong, I hope the Shaws (and whoever else was involved in trying to fix Saturday’s main event) get everything that’s coming to them and wind up destitute, selling gaudy oversized watches off a blanket on the sidewalk. But think about all the athletes who competed on Saturday and put on great – and as far as we know – non-fixed fights who would suffer if the company folded. I’d love to see EXC be able to continue on under new management/ownership and keep affording fighters opportunities for decent paydays outside the UFC.
by Chris Nelson on Oct 6, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, its too late. Gary Shaw is already gone, and the management in a state of turnover, and we got the worst instances of corruption and ineptitude at their most recent event. The brand is tainted and its clear at this point there is nobody at the head who is willing to take a stand and say “this is wrong.”
Better a few fighters suffer now than all fighters suffer later.
by Michaelthebox on Oct 6, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
promoters yelling at the ref in more than one fight is exhibit C.
Looking like k-fed is Exhibit D
by mmalogic on Oct 6, 2008 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I concur with exhibit C.
When has Dana ever done that? Never.
by RoyalB on Oct 6, 2008 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes,
big thanks to Nick for typing the interview out for those of who are unable to listen while at wk. But we can type like a mother f-er!!
by dnevil001 on Oct 6, 2008 5:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m glad people are starting to come around. I’ve been saying for over half a year now that EliteXC is bad for the sport. All the signs have been there for a long time.
by Michaelthebox on Oct 6, 2008 6:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The video evidence is clear of Shaw working a ref
To everyone who does not want the UFC to have all the best fighters, at least admit this to yourself: you may forgive $tupid for what he’s done here, but if it was Dana White working a ref for Chuck or Randy (or, better yet, Roger Goodell screaming at the umps during a Patriots game), y’all would be calling for him to be strung from the highest tree for compromising the integrity of the sport.
And you know what? You’d be right.
Fuck EXC and fuck Jared Shaw.
by subo on Oct 6, 2008 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fuck EXC and fuck Jared Shaw.
Tell us how you really feel.
Anyways, there are only a few fighters that the UFC would take from EliteXC anyways. Guys like Eddie Alvarez, Antonio Silva, Seth Petruzelli, Rafael Feijao, and Brett Rogers.
The only reason that Seth Petruzelli would come back to the UFC is just so that Dana White can exploit him as the destroyer of the Kimbo hype.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Oct 6, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its somewhat meddlesome for EliteXC to offer the fight to Seth and then insinuate that they’d like to see it be a stand-up fight, but to say he was bribed would be exaggerating things.
As for referees officiating according to the crowd reaction – how the hell do you blame EliteXC for that? As has been pointed out hundreds of times over the last few years, the referees are beholden to the sanctioning body, not the promoters. If you’re going to throw EXC under the bus for that, I guess you’ll be writing off the UFC too, considering gems lke this:

by smoogy on Oct 6, 2008 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s not somewhat meddlesome, it’s outrageous. Athletic commissions ought to look into this immediately.
I agree with you on ref standups and crowd reactions.
I don’t want EliteXC to fold. I want the girls to have a place to get exposure, I want places for guys like Shields, Arlovski, and others to Shine. I just want a management overhaul, a complete management overhaul.
by Michael Rome on Oct 6, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much. The more MMA, the better. Simple as that. It’s just that the crooked noses of the sport need to get out ASAP. And, to be fair, a lot of us are to blame. Not me, of course, but a lot of the fans are to blame. Most fans love to just see stand-up wars and the icons win. For instance, the silence in the crowd after Kimbo lost was the same silence in the crowd after Rashad murdered Liddell. They went to see an icon win and instead got treated to the death of the icon. I’ll put it this way. If Randy lost to Sylvia, could you have imagined the silence in the arena that night? Do you think the UFC would have liked that result? Probably not. A lot of us are to blame. I love ground wars more than stand-up battles so I’m not gonna blame myself. Hell, why would I? Haha.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Oct 6, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I agree with the idea that the current ProElite management needs to be thrown overboard. And really, if EXC is going to continue as a promotion, the first step towards trimming the fat would be laying off 90 percent of them anyway. Some of the horror stories I’ve heard about dealing with them are pretty unreal.
by smoogy on Oct 6, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
worst .gif I have ever seen… what are we supposed to take from one frame of a fighter lying on another??
by dt3 on Oct 6, 2008 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a standup from side control, and it was in reaction to the crowd booing. If I could add sound to GIFs, I would.
by smoogy on Oct 6, 2008 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand what yer sayin’, shit happens sometimes.
But it does tend to happen to EliteXC every card so far?
by mythbuster on Oct 6, 2008 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is you don’t have UFC officials screaming at the ref’s…
when mirgliata stood kimbo and thompson up k-fed was screaming for it…
did they influence the outcome?
God knows but it sure as fuck doesnt help your cause when you’re screaming for it.
So k-fed’s excuse for this last embarrassment was that all he wants is a fair outcome…
was he screaming when kimbo was hitting tank in the back of the head? was he calling for the call to be contested?
These guys make the bush administration look competent…
by mmalogic on Oct 6, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought we were comparing the Arlovski and Clementi stand-ups. Nobody was screaming at the ref when AA got his stand-up.
by smoogy on Oct 6, 2008 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PETRUZELLI DENIES CLAIMS!!!
Upon being asked directly whether EliteXC officials had even hinted that he could receive a bonus by keeping the fight standing, Petruzelli clarified that no such act had taken place.
"No," he responded. "Look, even the UFC gives knockout bonuses. Everyone gives knockout bonuses. There’s knockout bonuses, submission bonuses, all sorts of bonuses. I just wanted to keep it standing because I felt I could beat (Kimbo) at his own game."
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 6, 2008 7:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It would be a mistake to minimize the fact that EXC officials are trying to directly impact how a match plays out with money. You cannot let this kind of shit slide. With EXC being prominently displayed on network TV, they have a huge impact on what many people perceive the entire sport to be. I maintain that EXC in its current form does more harm to the sport of MMA than good. I have nothing against any of the fighters, and I’m sure that there are some great people working there with their jobs in jeopardy. However, you’ve got to worry about long-term damage to the perception of the sport at this point. It could be irreparable if EXC continues in this manner.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 6, 2008 7:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Seth Denies Saying They Influenced The Fights!
He said it as more like a KO Bonus, or Submission Bonus, which even the UFC does, to keep the Main Event from being a bore fest. This is all being blown out of proportion.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 6, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so a stand up bonus is equivalent to UFC’s KO, submission, and fight of the night bonuses?
It sounds like he’s getting a million phone calls from elite and he is backtracking a bit.
by mmalogic on Oct 6, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That flies in the face of what he said earlier. Why would he make the earlier statements which were completely contradictory? Like mmalogic said, there’s no equivalency between insinuating that you don’t want Kimbo taken down and giving a guy a bonus for knockout of the night. It’s really really fishy.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 6, 2008 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HERE IS THE ENTIRE STATEMENT!
Upon being contacted by FiveOuncesOfPain.com for a followup, Petruzelli indicated that he felt his words during the 104.1 FM interview are being twisted and he categorically denied accusations that EliteXC somehow tried to influence his strategy through financial considerations.
"What was meant to be said was that I wanted to keep the fight standing for myself because I knew that was what the crowd, the promoters, and everyone wanted to see because that’s more exciting than just taking someone to the ground," Petruzelli said. "That was my thing only. I wanted to keep it exciting so I decided to keep it standing. It had nothing to do with anybody else. That was all me."
Upon being asked directly whether EliteXC officials had even hinted that he could receive a bonus by keeping the fight standing, Petruzelli clarified that no such act had taken place.
"No," he responded. "Look, even the UFC gives knockout bonuses. Everyone gives knockout bonuses. There’s knockout bonuses, submission bonuses, all sorts of bonuses. I just wanted to keep it standing because I felt I could beat (Kimbo) at his own game."
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 6, 2008 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure sounds like he got a phone call after his initial remarks.
by Richard Wade on Oct 6, 2008 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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