Who Cares if Kimbo Slice Lost?

by Luke Thomas on Oct 6, 2008 10:10 AM EDT in News Comment 58 comments

If the closest comparison to Slice in terms of charisma is Mike Tyson, then it’s inevitable we look at Tyson’s loss to similarly unheralded James “Buster” Douglas in 1990. While not disposed of as economically as Slice, Tyson experienced a definitive loss -- yet it failed to put even a minor dent in his box office.

As with Tyson, people are drawn to Slice because they’re drawn to the idea of quick, sudden violence, not because of an unblemished record. So long as Slice can continue to deliver exciting bouts and his alley-cat charisma, it doesn’t appear likely fans will opt for desertion. (Really -- is there anyone who watched the CBS card that wouldn’t tune in to see Slice’s bid for redemption?)

The real issue is whether Elite will be granted the opportunity for some redemption of their own. If Slice is seen as having reduced marketability, it’s possible CBS will withdraw support of Elite’s efforts -- though any reasonably intelligent bean-counter would be wise to grant them a stay of execution until the numbers for Slice’s next fight are recorded.

Could be. I suppose there are those who will continue to watch him despite his obvious shortcomings. For me, it's about performance. Insofar as Slice improves and the talent he fights progresses in difficulty, I care. Insofar as it doesn't, I don't either. And from what I can gather, it'll be quite some time before Slice will be battling anyone of any reverential skill.

Until such time, I no longer care. Others are welcome to like what they like, but until matters change on Slice's and EliteXC's end, I'm done.

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Wow. Just wow.

Totally – because Tyson in 1990 and Slice in 2008 are SO comparable in terms of their developement vis a vis their peers and the sport…
…
oh, you mean Tyson was the youngest HW champ ever and had already decimated the divison, while Slice is a thirty-something newcomer that hasn’t even broken into the big leagues?

Well, then I guess the comparison is shit, huh?

by subo on Oct 6, 2008 10:35 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Yeah serious what the fuck?

Why is Kimbo Slicecake being compared to Mike Tyson…one of the greatest boxers EVER? Even with those losses during the twilight of his career, Tyson’s record stands at 50 wins with 44 of them coming by way of Knock out and just 6 losses. What had Kimbo done thats even remotely as impressive?

I hate it with no-talent scumbags overachieve. And I hate it when dickheads like you hype them up.

“insofar”…. what a douche.

by flyingknees on Oct 6, 2008 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know why i pressed reply… i was addressing the douche who posted this article not you. I agree with everthing you said btw subo.

by flyingknees on Oct 6, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um

I’m going to leave this comment up before I ban you just to show everyone how poor your reading comprehension skills are.

by Luke Thomas on Oct 6, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I largely disagree with Rossen, but I still wanted to air the opinion. Don’t kill the messenger.

by Luke Thomas on Oct 6, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tried not to - not your opinion

But if Rossen were here… we’d have words.

by subo on Oct 6, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem is...

(as I made the mistake of mentioning GSP and Kimbo in the same sentence in another thread and face the same nonsense now)

… the comparison isn’t between Tyson and Kimbo as fighting talents, but rather as pop icons, or cultural anomolies. Whichever. Tysons personality and brutal way of fighting brought a LOT of casuals to his boxing matches, as Kimbo’s youtube fame and ‘street thug’ persona has done for MMA.

The similarities pretty much end there tho. Once you understand that the comparison is about their icon status, you realize that the writer is asking the question, “Will people still tune in after a loss?”. And to me, that’s a wait and see.

by mythbuster on Oct 6, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ding ding!

People are misreading the article completely. It isn’t a comparison of the relative skills in their sport. It is the must-watch aspect.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 6, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

must watch?

How do you compare kimbo slice who can’t sell out an arena to Mike Tyson who can sell out MSG by jerking off?

How well did Kimbo vs Mercer do on PPV?

Right…

Jake Rossen must be the dumbest person on earth.

If we have this stupidity in the MMA media how can we complain when the main stream completely misses it?

by mmalogic on Oct 6, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Completely agree there Subo!

by Rob J Nathan on Oct 6, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Poor EliteXC

I feel like they had all their eggs in one basket. For their main attraction to get beat in 14 seconds by someone who wasn’t even supposed to fight a heavyweight is crazy. If Kimbo was worth the hype he would not let this happen. He took to fight wayyy to lightly.

But.,, maybe that is just the way MMA works .. you never know.. and it only takes one punch.

Rob Dib
http://www.break-your-face.com

by Rob Dib on Oct 6, 2008 11:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I will still be watching...

I don’t care that he lost…It was only a matter of time…Atleast it didn’t come at the old-ass hands of Grampa Shammy..I will still watch this intriguing fighter. I would like to see him get a few more fights under his belt and then fight Brett Rogers. I am also curious to see if this will make a difference on how their other fighters are promoted.
EXC really screwed the pooch by not promoting their skilled fighters just as heavily. They would probably be in a better position to recover from this loss.
Still a pretty good fight card overall. Their ringside reporter has to go, or else, get someone to write some decent questions. Her reaction to the end of the fight was a close second to $kala, who looked like a complete tool. I wonder how long he cried, or is he still crying?…

by Kel on Oct 6, 2008 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

EXC really screwed the pooch by not promoting their skilled fighters just as heavily. They would probably be in a better position to recover from this loss.

^ This.

Maybe this is an unrecoverable problem for them but, Shaw aside, I have a feeling there are lots of other people who don’t want to lose any more money and are putting their heads together to figure out a way back. One guy losing one fight is probably not the end of the story here.

by mythbuster on Oct 6, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

While I do think that it is hilarious

that “Fergie” was ko’d by basically a get off of me jab, I do not care. The comparison by Rossen is completely ridiculous-arguably the most dominant heavyweight during his prime to someone who just took up MMA and has 4 fights. I watched for GINA CARANO, Arlovski, and MMA fighters period. It has nothing to do with Slice.

Funny thing I noticed though, after “The Silverback” KTFO’d Fergie, he seemed to keep looking back at Slice & his entourage like they were worried about getting jumped & mugged! Maybe it was just his excitement, but it was still funny

by dnevil001 on Oct 6, 2008 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If you listen closely...

…you can hear Seth voice his concern about the exit…he seems to be asking which exit would be safest and they told him which one to go to.

by Kel on Oct 6, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know!!

I was hoping that I was not the only one that noticed that, hilarious!! Even his corner seemed to fear for their safety as well.

by dnevil001 on Oct 6, 2008 11:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A) Tyson is not one of the 10 best heavyweights of all time…let alone boxers.

B) People are greatly overlooking the fact that Kimbo still got a very good reception after losing. It isn’t about the fighter, it’s about the image. I can now officially write him off as strictly hype after James Thompson busted him up and then Petruzelli knocked him out…but I don’t think that “joe bloodlust” will.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 6, 2008 11:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A) Tyson is not one of the 10 best heavyweights of all time…let alone boxers" ?

Are you kidding me? I actually wrote he was one of the most dominant ever & of course was talking about boxers because um well Tyson was a boxer, which is completely true & hardly even arugable.

by dnevil001 on Oct 6, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, definitely overstated

Tyson not being one of the ten best heavyweights of all time is a pretty bogus statement. In his prime, he was an absolute phenom.

Beyond that, if Brent is trying to narrow the gap between Tyson as a boxer and Kimbo as a Mixed Martial Artist— well, that’s purely absurd. I don’t think anyone would argue Tyson’s abilities as a boxer in his heyday in opposition to Kimbo’s MMA skills today. No argument, whatsoever..

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

again...

No…I’m not saying that Kimbo is anywhere NEAR as good as Tyson on a skill level. I’m saying that the comparison is on an image basis…not a skill basis.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 6, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hahahahahaha

Tyson not one of the best Heavyweights hahahahahaahaahahah oh hold on a minute … hahahahahaahahahahahaahaha

by Rob J Nathan on Oct 6, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like ya brent, I really do...

But please show me a top ten all time HW boxer list that does NOT include Tyson.

by subo on Oct 6, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Manny Steward had him at 10

several other top trainers in the history of the sport left Tyson off completely in ’05. So yeah…I can show them to you.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 6, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or...

ESPN’s list of the 10 best heavyweights of all time in Dec 07

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Ezzard Charles
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Frazier
10. Larry Holmes

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 6, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ESPN-anything is not a good source for historical information

And of course you can find dissenting views, if you look for them. He’s found on those lists more often than not, I would bet.

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ESPN's boxing coverage is actually at the top end...

of the boxing coverage spectrum these days. And ESPN’s penchant for sensationalism in most of their coverage would have led to Tyson’s inclusion one would think.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 6, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

100% disagree

ESPN is preachy, self-concerned and over-opinionated, and they regularly discount various athletes historical significance as a result of their personal tribulations.

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

disagree with what?

There is no disagreeing with ESPN.com’s boxing coverage. It is solid. Dan Rafael is superb.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 6, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree with what?

Read: subsequent copy.

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Point taken - how much of that is pure Tyson hatred, though?

I think the antics and the arrest and the earbiting make it really easy to diminish Tyson (and, perhaps more important, take dumps on the fans who like him as ‘unsophisticated’ or ’bloodthirsty’) – and while I respect ESPN’s boxing coverage (Bert Sugar is the fucking MAN), I gotta disagree with leaving Tyson off of that list. No other boxer lost his prime years sitting in a jail cell.

That said, you totally shit on me there. Point to you.

by subo on Oct 6, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A) Tyson was definitely one of the 10 best known boxers the sport has ever seen. Even if you don’t agree with rating him on talent it’s hard to deny him on popularity. Mike Tyson was and still is a household name.

B) Mike Tyson was mainstream huge in the US 15 to 20 years ago, he was a bigger then than MMA the sport is now. All that “joe bloodlust” has seen of Kimbo Slice on network tv is James Thompson busting him up and Seth Petruzelli knocking him out, not only was he exposed on national tv he never actually did anything close to what people watching were told that he would do in either CBS fight. So yea he got a good reception in his home town after the fight but you really have to wonder how that will translate to future ratings with the casual fans who have sat through two overhyped fights where he didn’t do much of anything?

by who me on Oct 6, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But hey..

..Tyson is always looking to get paid and has toyed with the idea of doing MMA. Tyson/Kimbo?? Sounds like something Bas would agree to and I bet CBS would be on board. Would that be a car wreck everyone slows down for or what?

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

iirc

didn’t Kimbo say one of his dreams was to fight Tyson?

That would do huge numbers.

by mythbuster on Oct 6, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously..

I thought I was joking when I started typing it, but it would be a cash-cow and they’re both sort of sideshow fighters to me. Tyson is always money for ridiculous quotables, too. I would scoff at the whole thing as an MMA fan, but I don’t think it’s above $kala.

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

At this time

I am pretty sure that Tyson would do absolutely anything for a payday.

by dnevil001 on Oct 6, 2008 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What a poor comparison; by the time Tyson lost to Douglas he had already had 37 fights and held the IBF,WBA and WBC heavyweight titles, Kimbo Slice has had all of 4 professional fights against questionable competition. Kimbo earned his popularity on Youtube with the likes of the Drama Gopher, Tron guy and Tay Zonday and EliteXC hyped that to hell with a couple of hand picked matches that’s in no way comparible with what any multiple time world champion in any sport did to become popular.

by who me on Oct 6, 2008 12:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rossen is so off here. I think this comparison is very shaky. People aren’t complete morons, maybe uninformed, but not complete idiots. Kimbo was misrepresented to the public. Saturday night revealed this to casual fans. Yes, Tyson and Kimbo are both pop culture icons, but Tyson’s status was built on his accomplishments within his sport. Kimbo’s reputation was built on Youtube fights in backyards and against low level MMA competition. “You can’t unring a bell.” The fact is that Kimbo was beaten in 14 seconds by a journeyman light heavyweight. If people still have the same desire to watch him, that’s their deal. I may be wrong about what people expect from athletes. I’ve certainly been wrong before.

by Cannon Jacques on Oct 6, 2008 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Yep..

+rec

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tyson...

MAY crack the top 10 heavyweight of all time list. But he is NOT top 5 and I will defend that to the death as someone whose background is in boxing.

He is not on the same page as:
Ali, Joe Lewis, Larry Holmes, Jack Johnson, Holyfield, Frazier, Marciano…

You could make an argument for Lennox Lewis being above Tyson as he had a much longer prime along with names like Foreman, Dempsey, Conn, Charles, Braddock, Baer….Tyson could be higher, but he killed his own ability to end up higher by shortening his prime via being a piece of garbage. He had a big impact on the sport and was certainly the top guy in the division during his run…but that doesn’t make him a lock for the top 10 all time.

This isn’t just me talking here…this is the majority of boxing experts who wouldn’t include him in a top 5 and he was low (or missing) on most top 10 lists put together by top trainers in the sport in ’05.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 6, 2008 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well...

Readers are making correlations. If it’s not an associated comparison, why are we arguing it? Kimbo is not one of the Top 100 MMA heavyweights of all time and probably does not have the necessary criteria to be ranked anywhere— even if Tyson is your #11 heavyweight boxer.

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My background is not boxing,

so this is my opinion and I am only 32 so I have seen tape of the majority of the fighters on your lists. But are you saying that Mike Tyson, in his prime, was not every bit as dominant as every single one of those fighters on that list? Or, do you believe that he would not have been a top flight force in any of those eras? Again, I can only base on what I personally have seen. Some of those guys are great, but he dominated as much as any of those guys did and that is really all that you can compare.

by dnevil001 on Oct 6, 2008 1:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That truly is the point..

..his later years, his fall from grace and his behaviour in and out of the ring surely hurt his standing with many boxing experts. But in judging his prime in relation to his contemporary (or even historical) peers, there is no denying his relevance and value in heavyweight boxing lore.

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not saying that at all..

I was just saying Tyson is not one of the top 10 of all time.

People are confusing my 2 points.

1) was off-topic and just getting across that Tyson was seeming to be vastly overrated here. Yes, he’d be a force in his prime in any era, but that being said his accomplishments don’t warrant anything beyond a low top 10 ranking in my book.

2) the point of the article was not the skill level of the two. it was simply that as the article said "
As with Tyson, people are drawn to Slice because they’re drawn to the idea of quick, sudden violence, not because of an unblemished record."

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 6, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again..

It’s implied by the original article, and perpetuated by your argument. It really seems as though you’re closing the gap, unless you truly are arguing off topic. And if so, why are we still discussing Tyson’s accomplishments in a thread about Tyson’s similarities to Kimbo?

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

at this point...

it’s because you all made me out to be a nutjob for daring to say that Tyson isn’t a top 10. Plus I enjoy a good debate over history.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 6, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL,

I love a good debate as well!! But that still is way nutty man!!!

by dnevil001 on Oct 6, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You may be arguing a different point

Fuck ESPN and everyone else, then, while considering the following..

You, personally— where do you place Tyson, in his prime, in a Power Rankings, of sorts, versus his historical heavyweight counterparts? That’s my criteria for a top ten list of all time greats, if you’ll humor me..

And for the sake of clarification, you don’t think Kimbo is a modern day MMA Tyson.. I think..

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh god no...

Kimbo is only a modern day Tyson in his ability to fascinate those normally not into the sport. But this is like if the Douglas KO happened a few years earlier and before Tyson proved himself to be anything special.

As for where I’d put him in a theoretical power ranking list…As I said in the below post, he has no shot at cracking the top 7. If he makes my list it would probably be at #9 or 10 but at least at the moment I’d have him probably at #11 or 12. Which isn’t a personal vendetta against Tyson, I have a large Tyson tape collection and he was one of my favorite fighters in my youth.

I’m going to stop thread jacking Luke’s post here though. I dragged this thing so far off topic…

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 6, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough..

I’m 26, and I’m no boxing historian, so I’m far more qualified to discuss the correlations to modern day MMA and how Kimbo and Tyson are not at all similar— in ability, expectations (realistic/educated), accomplishments or decoration.

I do miss the glory days of heavyweight boxing, though. I’d certainly have a more educated knowledge of the history of the sport if it had greater relevance today..

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Compromise:

Tyson being a jackass not withstanding, his accomplishments are not what I was talking about. You cannot downgrade Ali for the horrible fights in the latter part of his career or Foreman for coming back in his forties. It is about his dominance during his prime, you cannot put up this kind of record-50 Wins, 6 Losses, 2 No Contest, 44 Knockouts and not be considered one of the top ten of all time.

by dnevil001 on Oct 6, 2008 2:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sure you can...

I would never put him above:

Ali, Joe Lewis, Larry Holmes, Jack Johnson, Holyfield, Frazier, Marciano…

Which would leave spots 8-10.

Foreman 76-5 (68 KO’s)
Patterson 55-8 (40 KO’s)
Wills (waaay back in the day) was 81-10 (51 KO’s)
Charles 90-25 (51 KO’s)
Baer 68-13 (52 KO’s)

Braddock’s record is lackluster so I’ll put tyson above him. But I’d have to seriously think before I put him above any of the 5 other guys I named battling for 8-10.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 6, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Curious

I know crap about boxing, but what about Dempsey and Liston?

by mythbuster on Oct 6, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah,

those are two guys that I have heard of at least unlike Wills, Charles & Baer. I am not schooled in this arena so this is just my observation and humble opinion.

by dnevil001 on Oct 6, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ezzard Charles, Ralph Baer and Harry Wills

Are all old-timers. Baer was featured as the antagonist in Cinderella Man.

by Blackout612 on Oct 6, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ahh,

well that would explain my knowing about any of them. Ranking all timers is always a touchy subject. My stance is simple, from my point of view having seen Tyson decimate everyone for years & his record, I find it hard to believe that he could be left out of the top 10 all time and also think that had he fought in some of those other periods he surely would have done very well in his prime.

by dnevil001 on Oct 6, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Foreman and Floyd Patterson and then I have never heard of any of the next three guys so it is hard to comment based solely on their record. I personally saw Tyson’s dominance & I agree with the top 6 on your list being greats as even at my age I knew of their greatness. So #7 on the all time top 10 then?

by dnevil001 on Oct 6, 2008 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The premise of comparing Kimbo Slice’s aura/image/popularity to Mike Tyson is utterly stupid.

Mike Tyson can sell out MSG by jerking off… Kimbo can’t even sell out an arena in his hometown!

Mike Tyson sold mega ppv’s…

Kimbo vs Mercer sold shit ppv’s…

the only thing in common is they are black… Jake Rossen needs a brain transplant.

If we accept this stupid reasoning from within the MMA media what the hell should we expect from the mainstream?

The reality is this guy couldnt knock out a guy with a glass jaw so the ref had to give him the fight… then he gets knocked out by a pink haired part time fighter who is from a lower weight class while standing on one leg – that is the only story here.

by mmalogic on Oct 6, 2008 3:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs