EliteXC "Heat" Thoughts
by Michael Rome on Oct 4, 2008 11:52 PM EDT
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First of all, I thought this was a really good show. It kept a good pace throughout, the fights were all entertaining, and the crowd was into everything.
It was sad seeing Ninja lose that way, but I saw it coming. Those guys were just swinging wildly, and Ninja went to the well with the knee one time too many.
Gina looked great tonight. Her striking was really precise, and she did a great job avoiding the takedown. I have no idea how a judge gave a round to Kobald just for taking her down. Good showing from Gina, and I suspect she is going to kill Cyborg. Her striking is just on a different level.
Good win for Arlovski, but that standup in the first round was beyond outrageous. Nelson's only chance was on the ground, how can you stand it up from side control? Completely ridiculous. However, Arlovski's finishing combo was a sight to behold.
Jake Shields pulled out a gutsy win, but I can't help but think he was exposed tonight. He's a great fighter, but nowhere near GSP's league at 170.
Finally, the main event...wow. What a spectacle, and what a disaster. Kimbo was dropped with a right jab, $kala yelled at the ref on Kimbo's behalf, but it was too late. Dana White is going to throw a parade in Las Vegas.
You have to wonder what Kimbo's management was thinking taking this fight. No upside at all, and the worst possible outcome occurred. He just forfeited the million dollar payday he was bound to get at Zuffa when EliteXC folds, and for what?
Oh, one last thing. I do not believe for a second that Tito Ortiz and EliteXC are "a week away from a deal." He's been scheduled to be a ringside guest at this for months, and there is no way they are paying what he is asking. This was most likely a stunt to get a higher offer from Zuffa.
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The problem with EXC is that they consider themselves to be Major League. They should stop trying to fool themselves and everyone else into believing that their fighter are top tier. I like watching them alot more when i’m not expecting as much.
They should build their talent the RIGHT way. They have hand picked every opponent for Kimbo, with the exception of Petruzelli, and look what happened. They put stock in Gina Carano (whom I respect) and a womens division which has an extremely shallow talent pool. i hate to use the UFC as a watermark, but they have the most successful business model so far. In almost all cases when you watch a UFC card, the fights seem evenly matched. With EXC, i never feel that way, EXC should be headlining, Jake Shields, Robbie Lawler, and even KJ Noons before they tried to force him into match with an undeserving Nick “i can’t make weight in a 160lb division tailor made for me” Diaz.. Bottom line is, they have talent, marketable talent, and they put all of their stock into a gimmick. I’m sure the “casual” fan was impressed last nite.
I love MMA!
Wow, this was, ironically, a satisfying show. Never thought I’d say that with EliteXC. Rome is right, WTF was Kimbo’s management thinking? I can’t wait for Dana White’s comments in the morning. Kimbo beaten by a jab from a UFC cast-off.
My theory is that CBS wanted Kimbo on the show. They hold the cards. There wasn’t anyone there Kimbo could beat.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 5, 2008 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s the shitty situation Elite put themselves (and they put Kimbo in) by hyping him the way they have.
He’s been saying “anyone, anywhere” forever. I thought when I heard Shamrock was out that Kimbo not fighting would be the worst move he could make, I couldn’t imagine a late replacement KO’ing him in 14 seconds (I don’t think anyone could).
The fact is, if one of your main event guys has to pull out last second and the other one can’t beat a guy from a lower weight class that was supposed to be on the undercard, you’re doing something wrong.
Yeah the women put on a show, too bad no one else did. Elite is dead because their boy basically took a dive. Kimbo wanted out of that cage, and he got it. Ken bails, Orlovski beats up a fighter that bares no resemblance to an athlete, and Kimbo gets knocked out bay a jab. Good show.
I started to write a rebuttal to your post until I realized every single thing you said was absurd. And while I’d like to balance out your ignorance with competent criticism just for the sake of salvaging the quality of BE comments – that has taken a nose dive in the last couple months – I honestly don’t have the patience to argue that much right now.
"He [Kimbo] deserves a beating, and I wanna give it to him"
Shamrock’s statement as the event started. Well, Ken, he got the beating he “deserved”. Sorry that you couldn’t give it to him but maybe you can in the future.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
I still don’t get why people hate Kimbo, though. The guy has literally taken MMA to the next level. Think about it. MMA on primetime television was not even a remote possibility before this guy.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
I agree
I was excited as anyone about the underdogness of the win, but I don’t get why anyone hates the guy so much.
This is a derailment on the scale of Liddell V Evans ^3. Let the shit-blizzard begin, I love it when the best laid plans go awry. Seth just made my weekend.
I only meant a comparison of the plans of the respective organizations having their plans disturbed. The UFC missed a big payday, and Elite just imploded.
Tito has no where to go.
EliteXC, Affliction – they’re sinking ships. Tito is gonna have to swallow some pride. He’ll end up with the UFC again.
Most important developement
Agree whole heartedly that Shields was exposed. Abosuletly horrible stand up. Great ground game and 10 years ago would be a UFC champion. These days, I don’t think he is top 15.
Also – still a Kimbo fan. Whether or not he’s a great (or even good) fighter, who knows. But he is a stand up guy and is doing a better job than 99.999% of the people out there (including me) that are given this oppurtunity. Not necessary from a fighting perspective, but from a person perspective.
He was standup after the fight, but not before it.
Not touching the gloves of Seth was a little ummm, jerkish? But I dont know him personally so I cant just automaticaly hate him over that…but still.
Can't argue with that.
Still, I’d say overall he has been true to himself and a class act.
I said this before, Slice is the Butterbean of MMA. It is beyond stupid that any organization would hype him up this much. He has done more to hurt the image of MMA than any other thing.
How does he hurt the image of MMA more than anything? Please explain. I’m dying to hear this.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
Well, if you consider the success of EXC on CBS as helpful to MMA, then the numbnuts putting all of their eggs into Kimbo’s basket, had to hurt MMA when Kimbo gets smoked.
by ProCannonFodder on Oct 5, 2008 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
You think CBS/EXC wanted their mainstar to be KO’ed within 15 secs? I think most people want a viable competition to UFC with thus will help the sport overall. It is very likely that CBS gets out of the MMA business and thus limits the exposer to the sport. I would think if you are on network TV you would want the absolute best fighters fighting. It is deplorable that he was given this much hype given that every rational fan of the sport considered him a novice at best in the MMA world. Well that is my opinion and you can disagree with me.
You think CBS/EXC wanted their mainstar to be KO’ed within 15 secs?
You think the UFC wanted Lesnar to tap in 30 seconds?
Get over it, man. MMA will be fine. If we lose the casuals who thought Kimbo was a god, so much the BETTER for the sport.
No it won’t be,
The casuals money is worth the same as the Hardcore fans.
The companies need money to survive (see the graveyard of orgs that have come along to supposedly destroy the UFC for proof).
The casual fans are needed to keep the sport growing, people need to get used to it.
The casuals are the ones who boo when they don’t understand what’s going on, and want to see the old Tough Man Competition. They are the ones who have no idea what a ground game is, or why someone that just spent a minute getting the opponent down shouldn’t be stood right back up.
In short – the sport was fine before the casuals, it will be fine after the casuals (make no mistake, they will get bored and go somewhere else anyway).
its funny to me
that the same people who bitch so much about the casual fans are often the same ones who pine for the glory days of PRIDE, never stopping to consider that it was the Japanese casual fans (the ones who loved Giant Silva or Fedor vs Zuluhino) that were paying for all the fun.
Is that funny to you?
Because you wrote that in reply to me, who had no idea what Pride was recently. Until then, I thought that the UFC and MMA were synonyms.
kimbo slice is the houston alexander of eliteXC/ affliction
by westernhillskier on Oct 5, 2008 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
After seeing the fight, Nelson got robbed in that first round. And, Arlovski stands no chance against Fedor.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
While true, Arlovski would be decimated on the ground against Fedor. If Nelson (who is solid on the ground) can pass Arlovski’s guard rather easily, then I can’t imagine what Fedor would do.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
Shields seems like a good dude and a quality fighter
but GSP would easily finish him in the first. I think Jake would struggle with most of the UFC’s higher-end welterweights.
Where the fuck is the MMA media??
First we have skala screaming “stand them up” during the Kimbo-Thompson fight and now we have the same douche screaming at the ref again…
Dana gets an open letter from that troll Josh Gross for making a point to sanction MMA and test his fighters… when some of his fighters actually get caught – while pride is the wild west.
This is a travesty… Have standards come to be so low that this is accepted?
The Kimbo circus has been accepted by the MMA media because “elite needs money to survive”
What excuse is there for this behavior?
Honestly
I don’t care what Shaw yells. My only problem is if the ref listens, and then that’s on the ref.
real victim: Gina Carano
Gina was terrific tonite. Amazingly, she looked even hotter post-fight, sitting ringside.
In the end, Ken Shamrock proved he’s still loyal to Dana White by single-handedly sabotaging Elite XC. They’re done. And now my favorite girl will have no where else to fight. DAMN IT ALL!
I have to disagree a little with you here. EXC sabotaged themselves over the course of their existence. Kimbo never should have been sold to unknowing fans as a top fighter. Shamrock shouldn’t have been fighting Kimbo. Gina is in the safest spot of any female fighter. She’s much more popular than any of her counterparts. Gina will be okay whatever happens to EXC. Actually, I think she’s better off without them leaning on her, and fostering contempt among hardcore fans and other fighters as EXC tries to define her.
Gina showed again that she’s an amazing striker, and that she’s becoming much more complete. I’ll agree that she looked very good. I like it much more when she’s being herself and not trying to beat back criticism. Those critics are always going to be there, and trying to appease them is largely a losing battle. Gina should just move up in weight, and forget about the people that criticize her based on her attractiveness.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 5, 2008 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re right, I especially like that she said she might just move up to 145 during the prefight interview.
I see no reason for her to fight at 140 except that Elite is pushing her to because they have a couple of other women that have been fighting at 135, who don’t want to move up to 145. Look at how difficult it was this one time she actually made it down to 141. I can’t imagine her actually making it down to 140 for a title shot, she needs to fight at 145.
I think she’ll be ok. She’s still got Gladiators to keep her in the public eye, and she can probably catch on somewhere and make weight and win a few fights. If there’s still a desire, and she proves she can make weight and win a few fights (and that people care) maybe Dana will cave in and start a women’s division, if not, the next org that’s going to kill the UFC will gladly throw a lot of cash at her.
Typical Ninja, no discipline at all in his gameplan.
Gina looked awesome, can’t wait to see her and Cyborg.
Shields better work on his striking.
Arlovski/Nelson was a weird looking match up.
Kimbo…holy over reaction Batman! This isn’t boxing, a loss doesn’t mean that much. The same people that tuned in to watch him, will tune in again.
i would happily pay 49.99 to see Kimbo beat down Little Enos Shaw. Damn, that guy has to be the biggest dick anywhere near mma.
"The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"
kimbos first loss
im not a kimbo fan but whats the big deal with a loss, he went 3-0 and now hes 3-1, his loss comes from a fight with about 6hrs notice of his opponent. the other poster boy (brock lesnar) lost his first fight in a minute and a half with a full 8 weeks to train. People dont realize that 7 of petruzellis 10 wins were via knockout. However, kimbo still sucks and im glad he lost. now all of the mystique is gone and more and more people will want to fight him and hell get knocked out again and again and have his appendages twisted into nice little pretzels. i cant wait. ill keep watching just to see it happen. peace and chicken grease
by westernhillskier on Oct 5, 2008 9:01 AM EDT reply actions
im not a kimbo fan but whats the big deal with a loss, he went 3-0 and now hes 3-1, his loss comes from a fight with about 6hrs notice of his opponent. the other poster boy (brock lesnar) lost his first fight in a minute and a half with a full 8 weeks to train.
I agree.
And GSP lost to Serra.
I think when people are finished nailing the EliteXC coffin shut, they may realize there’s nothing in it.
No big deal for Kimbo
If Kimbo were to develop into a Top 25 fighter, then this loss would matter about as much as Faber’s loss to Tyson Griffin or a couple of Randy Couture’s early losses.
If Kimbo instead follows a Butterbean-style path, then no one will care about his record.
In either case, the chances of him signing with Zuffa were nil. Not gonna happen.
My three thoughts
1: They really, really need to replace that one announcer. Dunno if it was Mauro, but the guy who called about every move wrong. “Its a guillotine!” err… “That front karate push kick is so effective!” umm it didn’t even connect.
2: Was a good night of fights. For people wishing EliteXC’s death – pfooey on you. I don’t mind a good night of FREE fights every once in a while, with talented fighters who happen to be unknown. Maybe Kimbo will be back, maybe not. But he certainly made it exciting (for people who like him or hate him), and never became a dick.
3: I would really like to see an investigation into the reffing. It seems pretty fishy the past few shows that they are told to do certain things… now I’m not in the fight biz so maybe thats standard, in which case I surrender. But otherwise, there is something obviously fishy going on.
Last night was an excellent show. I have no problem with EXC’s fighters. They may not be on the level of the UFC, on the whole, but the fights are still entertaining. EXC overshadows their fighters with their marketing tactics, and really don’t try to increase the notoriety of their fighters besides their small group of stars. This won’t work. Kimbo proves that. Jared Shaw has got to go if EXC carries on in some form of another. He acts like a buffoon. He should not be out there representing the promotion.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 5, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
If I recall corrected, doesn’t CBS now own a majority share in the company?
I just don’t get the people who call for EXC to die off. What, so we can have less free shows, I guess? Meh… people.
And hey, no rappers or old bands last night = win. :)
I’m sorry, but I can’t get behind the way EXC does things. Last night’s show was exceptional, but I think you have to give a lot of that credit to 1) the fighters and 2) CBS’s production. I don’t think CBS is a majority shareholder, but don’t hold me to that. The bigger question is if CBS is going to provide them with future funds to operate. The current management has no business running the promotion, and I’m not confident that CBS could do it, either. If CBS can come up with a workable solution that presents MMA in a positive light (i.e. portraying the skill level of fighters appropriately), I’m all for it.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 5, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It's cool
They learn, slowly, but they learn. And as was proven last night, even on an imbalanced card like last night – the fighters will make the show. While most people will talk about the Kimbo fiasco, many are also remembering the Benji fight and the womens MMA. That’s future.
Don’t get me wrong – I wouldn’t buy one single share in EXC (dunno if its even public), but as long as they are putting free, and decent, fights on TV – I’m all for it. Kimbo vs. Thomson? Circus show. Lawler vs. Smith II? I wanna see it, and free is better.
$kala yelled at the ref on Kimbo's behalf, but it was too late.
Glad you brought this up Michael but it doesn’t seem to be getting much attention for some reason. I noticed during the first replay of Seth pouncing on Kimbo that $kala was cageside jumping up and down yelling at the ref and it looked like he was saying “Back of the head!” i guess in hopes that the ref would stop the fight to warn Seth and give Kimbo a chance to recover. But it was over before it was over.
Seriously, Jared Shaw needs to keep his mouth shut. He says stupid $h!t in his interviews and comes across as a jack@$$. As much as people hate on Dana White, when have we seen him freak out during a fight and yell at a referee when one of his golden boys was getting murked? As far as i can recall, we haven’t. At least Dana knows when NOT to get involved so it doesn’t look like at WWE circus act.
As much as people hate on Dana White, when have we seen him freak out during a fight and yell at a referee when one of his golden boys was getting murked?
How often are people paying attention to Dana White during those kind of upsets?
If he was on camera making a scene like Shaw was last night, everyone would recognize it and talk about it the next day.
Agreed.
I honestly don’t remember ever feeling like Dana is going out of his way to protect one of his boys. When Bisping lost, just before the post-fight interview with Rogan, Dana said something like “No matter what the decision is, keep it positive.” That and him admitting during post-fight PC’s that he’s really close friends with some of the fighters (usually after they lose), but I can’t think of anything remotely like Shaw’s nonsense.
Even though Dana comes off as a pudgy frat-boy, he really is professional in the way he conducts this business. You can disagree with his methods, and you’d have plenty of reasons to do so, but calling him unprofessional is kind of ridiculous.
Calling $kala unprofessional is kind of obvious.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
That stand-up from side control was a JOKE!
Lunch box had Arlofski in side-control and was punishing his ribs with devastating knees — so what does the ref do — he stands it up! That was some of the most blatant protection of the favored fighter I have ever seen. Elite XC is such a freaking joke! What a sham, complete disrespect for the sport and the athletes and the fans. Don’t tell me that shit wasn’t on purpose either — I gurantee management has SPECIAL instructions for the ref.
I told you I can't build your candy house! It will fall apart, the sun will melt the candy, it won't work!
Well
Just like the last Elite show on CBS.
They got beat in the ratings by America’s Most wanted, overall, and in the 18-49 demographic.
http://tvbythenumbers.com/category/ratings/nielsen-overnight-tv-show-ratings
They beat Knight Rider reruns, but not college football or America’s Most Wanted.
48 Hours Mystery airing right before Elite XC actually did a better rating than the fights. I wonder how many people changed the channel when they heard Shamrock was out.
Either way, the poor numbers, plus Kimbo’s loss puts Elite XC in serious trouble.
Thanks for the link.
I actually think that’s pretty good considering the competition, but that number certainly doesn’t make the show a resounding success. I never thought they could beat the May number, and they got beaten by two other networks. We’ll see what happens.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 5, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
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