Is Dana White Protecting Chuck Liddell From Anderson Silva?
by Kid Nate on Oct 31, 2008 10:46 AM EDT
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Ever since the disappointing main event between Anderson Silva and Patrick Cote there's been a lot of talk about what's next for the middleweight champ.
Expectations are that Anderson finally broke out as a PPV draw. MMA Payout estimates excellent numbers for UFC 90:
MMAPayout.com has learned that Countdown to UFC 90 drew 796,000 viewers on Spike TV last Thursday. That number is good enough to make it the most watched Countdown show of the year and believed to be the most watched in the history of the program.
Based on that number, MMAPayout.com projects that UFC 90 will draw 626,839 buys. The formula used to project pay-per-view buys based on countdown viewership has been remarkably accurate this year, however, a number that high would shock the MMA industry.
Of course as Fightlinker points out, the let down of a main event is going to leave many of those fans with a bad taste in their mouth:
It’s pretty ironic that the UFC had to convince people that Anderson Silva was the man, only to have his first really successful PPV tank with the most FUBAR main event in recent history. Suffice to say, this was not not a positive step forward for the sport, the UFC, or Anderson Silva.
Silva wants to get back in the cage ASAP, maybe even as soon as UFC 91. The most exciting speculation has been a Chuck Liddell match. That's very unlikely for Nov 15, but would be a huge pay day for both fighters.
Unfortunately looks like Dana White isn't keen on the idea. From Kevin Iole:
As I said earlier, I would hope a Liddell fight is made soon, but when my colleague, Dan Wetzel, and I asked White that question almost simultaneously, White seemed to laugh it off and said he didn’t know. He didn’t seem all that interested. I had talked with him about it in a private phone conversation about 10 days earlier and he was no more interested in it then. I’m not saying it won’t happen, just that Dana doesn’t seem enthused by the idea.
As for Chuck, he just wants to fight.
I can see where Dana is reluctant to put Liddell in the ring with someone as dangerous as Anderson Silva, but lets face it, both guys are at a point in their career where they need big fights NOW.
Liddell's not at all likely to contend for the LHW title again. Silva is threatening to retire as early as 2010.
Let's do it Dana. What are you afraid of?
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Dana is probably worried about wasting public interest for a high profile fight during a time period in which interest is high, UFC 91-94 should keep the UFC front and center and all eyes on them. Dana has to worry about the UFC as a whole and growing it as much as possible with efficient use of company resources, the main one being the fighters and their images.
Save Anderson and Chuck to anchor another time period, probably after Silva has had a chance to recement his badass image in a free event.
Agreed about the stacked cards post 91.
I also think that Dana would want to protect Chuck from a fight where he could get completely neutralized by a technical counter-striker (which is why Machida and Chuck will never be in the same ring while Chuck has any draw as a legitimate fighter).
At this point Chuck is a good but not elite LH that has done amazing things for the sport and still carries a big name. He has the potential to carry cards against guys like Wandy who like to come in and bang with him (even a flash knockout is better than 1-1.5 rounds of domination before a K.O.), but the Silva fight, if it happens, will only occur in one of two scenarios:
1) The UFC absolutely needs a major main event to build a card around;
2) Chuck has used up some of his other marketable fights and hasn’t impressed but hasn’t been completely outclassed. At that point I think Dana would be happy to risk what is left of the Chuck marketing mystique in exchange for a superfight against the Spider.
Chuck is Dana's boy...
But Dana needs to realize his goose is already cooked. You can’t salvage a career that is not salvageable at this point. Chuck is just like Tito now, old school, one dimensional, and predictable as hell.
I’ll take Rich Franklin over Chuck Liddell today.
Who wins in a Chuck vs Brandon Vera matchup?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
They both
probably need tune up fights before Dana should be looking to match them.
Its hard to say what lies ahead for Liddel, but there is no doubt that another loss, especially a spectacular knockout, is basically the end of his viable career.
(cross posted)
Reasons why it should NOT happen
1: People have been saying they want to see Silva fight the best. Liddel is not the best, and whether he’s even still good is debatable.
2: Despite his downfall, Chuck is still a big draw for the UFC. Silva would take him out and run any money the UFC might get from him in can fights.
3: Silva has said repeatedly that he wants a challenge. Chuck is no challenge. Silva picks his opponents apart with crazy-accurate striking, and mucho elusiveness. Chuch keeps on fist in the barrel, and the other in his pocket. He also just said that he doesn’t bother to check kicks, because they don’t hurt him.
All in all, while it might do money, it’s a long term bad idea for the UFC, for Silva and for Chuck.
I agree with points 1 and 3. But how huge is Chuck’s draw now? He’s not a headliner anymore so I’m not sure what his draw is.
"I'm a man who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That's what kind of man I am." - Ron Burgundy
by monkeyfightclub! on Oct 31, 2008 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont think theyre so anxious to make silva a star...
… that they’ll sacrifice (arguably) their biggest one, to make it happen.
the casual ufc will still tune in to see liddell fight anyone. hell, since he’s lost, and considered “washed up” by alot of people, that might even help his drawing power. people love to cheer on the underdog (see: sylvia vs couture).
in a perfect world, i’d like see liddell AND couture string together a few wins each, leading up to one last clash between the two, before they hang it up.
It just doesn’t make sense money wise to put them on a card at this time of the year.
91 is anchored by lesnar couture
92 is anchored by 2 title fights and third rampage/wand fight
93 is in ireland… they won’t waste these two for an overseas show. Plus it wouldnt’ surprise me if this one ended up free.
94 is anchored by gsp/penn.
None of these fights are worth a fight that could pull in so many PPV and could very well ruin one of their big draws.
but I don’t understand the “chuck isnt good enough stepping stone” arguement. He is still in the top 10 (I think 5 or 6?) int he metarankings. It would be a horrible match up… but are there ANY good match ups at LHW for Silva? His weakness is his wrestling and most people seem to agree the only person that wil beat him is someone who could take him down and have the BJJ not to get submitted. Who fits that description? Forrest may have the wrestling + he is a big LHW, but does he have the chin to take shots when he shoots? Rampage is not a wrestler + we all know how he and muay thai clinches work together. He won’t fight lyoto. Lidell is a striker. Wand got beat by the washed up lidell and his a brawler. Who is there that fits the description?
right but as a fan, we need another big fight on the 91 card. That card is weak besides the main event.
It’s lacking in names, not it good fights.
I think Stevenson/Florian and Maia/Quarry will be good fights and they are important to the UFC rankings.
As for Silva/Chuck, it depends on Chuck’s contract status. If he loses another fight, he really can’t be in a main event or a co-main event in his next fight, but he gets a PPV percentage, so they sort of need him to be the big name on the cards.
Maybe if Chuck is thinking retirement, they can do this fight, because if Chuck loses he retires, if he wins he has a huge win on his resume and can keep fighting. But if Chuck wants to keep fighting, the UFC needs him to win his next fight.
This is the problem with guys like Dana. They protect certain fighters and screw up potential great fights because they are protecting their own assets. It shouldn’t work that way. The best fighters should fight the best fighters. End of story. But it’s always politics. In the end of the day, the UFC is not much different than the boxing ranks that Dana claims to hate because of the politics involved.
This was the arguement that Randy Couture made when he left the UFC last year. At some point the top guys need to face each other. If EXC was so evil for protecting Kimbo. What is the UFC if they try and schedule around Chuck?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
This is the problem with guys like Dana. They protect certain fighters and screw up potential great fights because they are protecting their own assets.
I think it’s hard to make the case that the UFC is truly protecting certain fighters by not demanding other fighters to change weight classes to make the fights. If there are examples of the top guys within a particular division not meeting each other, that’s one thing. But to say they should be matching up fighters from different weight classes just to make great “super-fights” doesn’t hold as much water to me. I’m a huge fan of both Chuck and Silva. I think Silva would destroy Chuck right now, although I think if Chuck managed to connect he could certainly do far more damage than anyone else Silva has faced. But I don’t see it as “protecting” Chuck to not match him up against the champion from another weight class. Maybe that’s just me, though.
I figured it is a foregone conclusion that Silva is moving up to LHW. There are simply not any fights left for Silva at 185. So if he is going to assult the next rung of fighters. Who better than the biggest name out there. You know he would take the fight in a heartbeat. The guy wants to box Roy Jones Jr. for chrissakes.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
LIDELL
i would like to see it, but 91 is too soon for chuck. amybee in feb of next year. i dont think dana should protect chuck, chuck looks very beatable by any of the top 10 lhws (and maybee lower) so if he is going to get his ass kicked, it might as well be by the guy he has been overtly hyping as the #!1 p4p fighter in the world. no disrespect meant towards chuck, he is a sure -fire hof fighter and has meant alot to mma becoming as popular as it is today(he was actully on the cover of espn the magazine before kimbo, believe it or not . :) but i think his time has passed.
The UFC doesn’t have much to loose if Silva beats Chuck, but let’s say somehow Chuck pulls off a win against Silva – the UFC would have a LOT to gain because Chuck’s image would be renewed, and they would get 2-3 more huge fight draws afterwards even if Chuck lost a couple of more times after beating Silva.
The UFC is faced with a negative outcome no matter who wins a Liddell-Silva match up. If Silva wins Liddell becomes irrelevant, having lost 4 of his last 5 and his last fight to a middleweight, albeit the best middleweight in the world. A Liddell win tarnishes Silva’s reputation, and it comes against a smaller guy. Top lightheavyweights should beat top middleweights.
The bottom line is that a Silva-Liddell fight would be exciting and a huge draw, but the risks outweigh the rewards. Zuffa is likely unwilling to risk Liddell’s career against so dangerous an opponent. Especially with Silva planning on retiring next year, the boost Silva’s image would receive from beating Liddell would be mitigated. The UFC just doesn’t have enough incentive to make the fight right now in my opinion.
I agree
The only scenario I can see where anyone comes out ahead of the game is Silva winning, and from that only Silva wins – but Liddel loses and the UFC loses one of it’s biggest draw (as you pointed out, because he just lost to a middleweight).
I can see people wanting this fight for it’s “just for fun”-ness, but as a real fight I don’t see any point. If Silva is going to start fighting at 205 I would much rather see it against the top 205ers, especially considering he only has so many fights left before he retires. Let’s not waste them :)
LIDELL-SILVA
i think the fight is a win-win situation for the ufc. if silva can draw in 600k ppvs fighting cote, think how many he and chuck could bring in. if chuck loses, oh well he’s been losing. if silva loses, he will have lost to a bigger fighter and most will consider that he just got “caught”. plus a.silva is seriously talking retirment soon, so if he loses they could set up the rematch and draw in even more ppv’s before silva retires.
You might want to check this out.
Noting the suspiciously coincidental news from the UFC lately, BloodyElbow.com made an intriguing point: Is Dana White protecting “The Spider”?
This is from:
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/fight_club/posts/19221
That quote looks like she is misquoting you or just don’t understand your article. Or I’m misinterpreting hers.
Am I wrong on that?
Not curious, shes a retard when it comes to MMA.
:)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 31, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t call her a retard. I give her props for getting in there and writing about the sport. I do however question her commitment to it. I mean she has been writing about it for quite some time and I would like to see her ramp up her knowledge just a bit.
There is times however it’s nice to read an article from somebody that doesn’t visit 10 different MMA sites everyday and brings a different somewhat novice view of the sport to get a fresh perspective.
The problem I saw though is if you go linking to 5 different MMA websites which she did then she needs to make sure she is quoting all of them in the proper context and not misrepresenting their work. Cause to me her article was taking the opposite view of Kid Nate’s article but I got the impression she thought they were of the same view. Example being the quote I posted misrepresents the work of Kid Nate in my opinion.
You are a classy guy Kid Nate.
I saw you commented. I like your comment.
I really like how you handled that.
True class in my opinion.
I’m sorry but when did Bloody Elbow become a Sherdog clone?, because anyone trying to claim that Chuck who’s faced more top competition than anyother LHW out there is being protected from a MW is beyond idiotic. I know there are alot of Anderson Silva sheep around here but this is truly getting out of hand, the guy couldn’t even finish Cote and now there is a conspiracy from Dana to protect Chuck from Silva WTF? are some of you guys on.
the guy couldn’t even finish Cote
… he didn’t finish Cote before Cote quit. That’s not the same thing as him not being able to finish Cote.
I disagree with the notion that Lidell is being protected by this fight not yet being booked, but you can’t just look at who Chuck has faced in the past and say they aren’t protecting him “now” — what if from now on he only fights guys making their UFC debut? He would still have fought great guys in the past, but it’s the question of who he is matched up against now that determines whether he’s being protected now. Like I said, I don’t think we can say that he is (yet), but I disagree with your reasoning in getting to that conclusion.
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