Judo Chop Jr.

by Simco on Oct 31, 2008 2:11 AM EDT Comment 9 comments

Which fight displays the greatest variety of takedowns?

Case #1: Florian v Robinson
I was just watching this and made this gif. I'm not claiming this fight is in fact the leader for most variety of takedowns but it is what inspired the question.
1. Drop Seio Nage
2. Harai Goshi
3. Foot Sweep (More specific name?)
4. Double Leg

I realize the gif isn't numbered but for those who don't know #'s 1 and 2 you should be able to recognize the double leg and go from there.

If anyone can tell me of a fight where there were more used, let me know; I'd love to see it. I can also make gifs if requested.

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Not more variety per se, but a fairly rare takedown in MMA: Joe Stevenson hit a lateral drop on Mishima I believe.

by Luke Thomas on Oct 31, 2008 7:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Another unique throw would be Ishida’s sumi-gaeshi on Josh Wilcox at Strikeforce at the Playboy Mansion II. While Wilcox was able to avoid being thrown over to his back, Ishida was able to roll through and grab a slick armbar.

by JujiGatame on Oct 31, 2008 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If your looking for a name for #3, I would go with Kosoto Guruma.

Another fight I know that had a large number of takedowns would be the fantastic Karo Parisyan vs. Diego Sanchez fight, can’t think of the variety of throws in that fight right now.

by JujiGatame on Oct 31, 2008 8:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Karo vs Diego

might be the best ever for number of wild takedowns. That or Condit vs Miura.
Kind of ironic that the guy busting out all the cool judo lost the fight in both instances.

by Kid Nate on Oct 31, 2008 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s one thing to throw a guy up in the air with a beautiful throw, it’s another thing to follow through and end up in a position where you can gain a dominate control. Thats what lacked in the throws by Miura and Parisyan. I won’t quote it, but I believe in Dave Camarillo’s book “Guerrila Jiu Jitsu” he refers to this as Impact Control Position, or something similar.

I’m a judoka, I know the throws have force and can cause damage, but in MMA, a clean throw won’t end a fight. You can’t aim to end the fight by damaging your opponent with the throw, infact, anyone with grappling experience, knows how to do a break-fall and the throw will cause very little damage. The key is maintaining a level of control that your able to transition into half-guard or side control, keep your opponent down and don’t allow them to scramble back out of it, if you do, you just wasted the energy you used setting up that throw.

by JujiGatame on Oct 31, 2008 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just an add-on. Thats not to say you can’t hurt someone with the throw. I’ve reffed tournaments where I have seen ribs or collar-bones broken, but I’ve reffed whole tournaments where I never saw a single injury. When a person can stay relaxed during a throw, knows how to do a breakfall, the odds are significantly in favor of coming out of a throw without any damage from a well executed throw.

by JujiGatame on Oct 31, 2008 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree 100% with everything you’re saying, but there was value in Miura’s throws and trips on Condit. Condit himself told me Miura’s constant takedowns or threat of takedowns really prevented him from owning the clinch, which was something he had counted on going into that fight. I totally agree wild throws without positional follow-through can be deleterious to a fighter’s efforts, but it can also throw off the opponent and keep them guessing.

by Luke Thomas on Oct 31, 2008 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I agree 100% with what your saying. If a guy comes in with only a boxing skill set, you only have to worry about one thing (Royce vs. Jimmerson), if he has leg strikes, makes him more dangerous, you have to worry about something else, if he has wrestling, another thing you have to worry about, and so on. Judo provides you significant weapons to use inside a clinch, especially against a more powerful opponent because superior technique and understanding is invaluable.

by JujiGatame on Oct 31, 2008 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

definitely

In Karo’s best fights he really does this well — Dave Strasser, Nick Thompson – etc
But frequently he’s just using judo to disrupt his opponents’ attacks rather than putting himself in dominant position.
Karo’s book definitely emphasizes landing in control positions off of throws but it seems like in real fights he’s not always (often) able to do that.
Karo is so frustrating since by his own admission he’s frequently under trained for fights. He admits that in many instances he had submission opportunities but fought to win the decision rather than risk emptying his gas tank by going for the kill. That’s too bad and such a waste when a skilled athlete doesn’t live up to his potential.
Hopefully Karo can come out of this recent slump, get his hamstring repaired surgically and start coming into every fight 100%. Then we’ll really see just what pure judo can do in MMA.

by Kid Nate on Oct 31, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs