Affliction VP Tom Atencio Believes Station Casinos Will Go out of Business Early Next Year
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 28, 2008 5:13 PM EDT
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PrintEdited and fronted by Luke Thomas.
Interestingly enough, Affliction co-founder Todd Beard has recently surfaced to voice his displeasure with the UFC, most notably on a recent appearance on "The Scott Ferrall Show."
"They threaten us personally, which is hilarious," Beard said. "Dana White, Lorenzo Fertita, they are tough guys. They're old school mafia guys, or wannabe old school mafia guys that their grandfather built their business and they are nothing. They’re nothing."
When asked about Beard's comments, Atencio seemingly shrugged them off.
"I will always do my fighting in the ring but my partner has just had it with them," Atencio said.
During his interview with Ferrall, Beard mentioned that Zuffa co-founders, Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta, are experiencing some financial trouble with their Palace Station Casino properties.
"They put their business five billion dollars in debt," Beard said in the interview."They’re in big touble right now. They are going to go out of business in February. Guaranteed. Station Casinos will go out of business in February for sure."
Atencio did not refute this claim.
"They want to talk about us being done by January," Atencio said. "Well, I will guarantee you that their Statino Casinos will be out of business by February...I have all the proof I need."
Of course, there are two sides to every story but an effort to get a response from someone at Zuffa was unsuccessful.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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I will sell all of my belongings today if someone wants to make a last longer bet – the UFC v Affliction.
Seriously, ‘Affliction VP Tom Atencio Believes In Fairies’ would’ve been roughly as interesting to me. In fact, I’d sooner believe in fairies than his little MMA outfit (that noise you hear is money going down the drain to Lindland and Sylvia) outlasting Station Casino.
Remember when the UFC was shaking in it’s boots because EXC had a TV deal and Kimbo Slice was on E60? No – but I remember reading about it somewhere. And then saying ‘wow, these guys must hate the UFC.’
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 28, 2008 5:25 PM EDT reply actions
Yup, you got us. We hate the UFC. And we would’ve gotten away with it if it hadn’t been for you pesky kids.
I’m begging you, or anyone else that runs this site, to tell me it isn’t anti-UFC with a straight face. That it isn’t a fundamental, underlying philosophy around here that MMA is better off with its top talent spread across multiple organizations and promotions. There’s nothing wrong with feeling that way – it’s a difference of opinion that we have that I like debating, because I think my way is better for the sport (like you), I think I’m right (ditto for you) and recent events pertain to the issue at hand – but to pretend that you’re not pulling for it one way or another is, in a word, asinine.
I admire the job BE has done exposing StandGate – and I was wrong about the Fort Bragg thing being a non-story. You nailed that one. But to pretend it isn’t rooting for the fall of the UFC is insulting to your reader’s collective intelligence.
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 28, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
“But to pretend it isn’t rooting for the fall of the UFC is insulting to your reader’s collective intelligence.”
Then I’m going to have to insult them, unwittingly I suppose.
I don’t know what to tell you. No one here has any anti-UFC bias and never has. In fact, the original author of this FanPost has suggested many on this site (including your’s truly) has carried water for the UFC. No matter what I write someone always reads into some underlying narrative that never exists.
I posted the quote because it’s an inflammatory statement from a relatively high-profile player in MMA and MMA related products about a billion dollar casino company backing the biggest MMA player in existence going tits up. If that isn’t newsworthy to you, ok, that’s fine. But to think I posted it because I wish some ill on the UFC is pure insanity.
I just think Atencio is anything but a ‘relatively high-profile player’ in MMA. I view him as merely the head of the anti-UFC crusade. PRIDE, then the WFA, then it was EXC, now it’s Affliction. I just think Tom is the newest face in front of the groups that don’t want MMA to go the same road as football, baseball, basketball, hockey, tennis, golf, poker, bowling, and any other TV sport worth a good God damn, by consolidating all of the best in the world in a single league.
I don’t think you ‘carry water’ for other orgs, I don’t doubt your integrity, your love of the sport or your feelings for the fighter’s well being. I do, however, think that the stories that are fronted (take the numerous ‘Bad Economy Hurts UFC’ stories) are largely negative to Dana or the UFC and almost never, ever positive.
So I’ll keep posting my feelings here, and hopefully I’m doing it respectfully enough to avoid getting shitcanned. I’ll ask you, Luke, for your true opinion, whether or not you believe it taints your journalistic integrity: is MMA’s future best served with one destination (the UFC) being the only place for the best in the world to fight? I believe it is. And I also believe that the sooner we stop rooting for whoever is trying to challenge the UFC this month, the sooner our beloved sport will take its proper place.
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 28, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Unlike blindly supporting an organization instead of reporting news, which is what journalists and writers do. I think you are thinking about Yahoo.com to get what you are looking for.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 28, 2008 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, look who the author is...
Your anger is directed at the wrong person. I have to admit, certain fans do have it out for the UFC and he falls into that category.
If this is true, the readers’ collective intelligence is not worth sparing.
This site has probably been the most pro-UFC of any on the blogosphere, not as a result of bias but just as a result of reality. I have been out there from the beginning predicting the fall of EliteXC and Affliction, I called for an investigation first, Kid Nate said that EliteXC can’t die fast enough, etc. It was Luke who blasted Affliction after their first show and took a lot of heat for it.
Posters like Smoogy and D. Capitated basically think this website is a UFC shill site. Everybody sees bias through their own lens.
I don’t presume to know which model is best for MMA. I think the best would probably be one in which there is a single organization such as the UFC that has all the top talent, runs enough shows to get them all enough exposure, and the fighters have a union to represent themselves. The latter two options are not viable, so I think an atmosphere with two major competing companies is probably the best thing for MMA right now.
by Michael Rome on Oct 28, 2008 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
We're actually pretty close in our ideas for the sport
1. The UFC (or, hell, someone else) has 1-20 in the world in every weight class.
2. Regional shows get local TV deals and develop talent for the big show (refusing to engage in bidding wars or delusions of grandeur, thus avoid the big boy’s wrath)
If the regionals want to cross promote, awesome – but MMA needs an NFL in order to reach the stratosphere. In my humble opinion, of course.
Whatever my disagreements with y’all, we’re both in love with a sport in its infancy and want the best for it. Whatever I take issue with, I’ll remember that.
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 28, 2008 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm opposed to UFC having a global monopoly on MMA
I won’t deny that.
I’m also a huge fan of the UFC and think they deliver the best product by far of any promotion ever, including PRIDE.
Keep in mind the difference between a league and a promotion
the NFL is a league — there are multiple owners. If a player has some kind of bullshit dispute with one coach or owner there are 20+ other options for him to negotiate with.
The WWE is a promotion and ever since they killed off the WCW the pro-wrestling market has been moribund with zero growth.
The UFC is a promotion and IMO the ideal for the sport is a duopoly if not a league. The days of the UFC/PRIDE rivalry were glorious ones for MMA and I hope that a major Japanese promotion will emerge in 2009. I don’t think there will be a #2 in the US unless Strikeforce gets a major deal with NBC.
Yeah, that was a brutal night. I pick all upsets (except for Kos) and miss Dos Santos. In my defense, I was pretty high when I saw the contest rules were up.
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 28, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe EliteXC was just the beginning....
If this is true we could be watching the beginning of the end of an era. How funny would it be if all the world MMA organizations have to get together to reduce costs because they can’t get financing to stay in business. We’ll just have to wait and see.
Umm
Let’s see Affliction actually follow through on a second show before we take his word on whether other people’s businesses are going to make it or not.
Yep.
Remember, the original plan was three shows. Anyone want to give me odds on that?
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 28, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't Atencio
Also greatly exaggerate if not completely fabricate his PPV and gate numbers from the first Affliction show?
unrelated
Aside from mutual ownership, what do the casinos have to do with MMA? By citing unrelated examples, Beard looks like he’s grasping at straws. Apples and oranges, peoples…..
Zuffa is far from trouble… what would you say with the possible viacom liquidation Zuffa is making a play to purchase spike?
Regarding Station… The USA is 10 trillion plus in debt. Station is 5 billion in debt – debt instruments are manipulated in all sorts of ways.
Let’s assume he is correct and Station goes out of business… The Fertittas will still walk away with enough to buy these guys 100 times over.
Brother Rome made a post about the currency fluctuations regarding Zuffa’s overseas expansion…
The assessment is correct but you also have to take into account that the expenses also went down and it is cheaper to invest now because of the strength of the dollar.
If you’re referring to the strength of the dollar… sure it will not last but the point is when you’re diversified in multiple currency’s and multiple markets you have a built in buffer to downturns.
unless the downturn touches all those currencies and markets…
by boxingstudent on Oct 28, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It strikes me that this post isn’t really MMA news. A billion dollar company in a bad economy goes into debt during a recession. What does that have to do with anything?
Regarding currency, the problem is they made most of their investment in the UK in pounds with the initial expenditure, more than they’ll ever spend again. They probably lost the currency battle for now, it is not a big loss, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the mainland european expansion keeps getting delayed.
by Michael Rome on Oct 28, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
the news value is more that
Atencio is saying it than in the statement itself. It’s remarkably unprofessional behavior on Atencio’s part if you ask me.
Atencio doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He must be reading the same MMA bloggers turned business analysts that everyone else has. Please, for the love of anything, READ about the state of the US economy, the LV economy and Station Casinos. It’s like everyone seems to thing that Station is living in this little bubble. Let see Atencio release their numbers on how “well” their overpriced crap is selling right now.
Station has 17 properties and 14000 employees. If a LV company as big as them is going down, a lot of other places there won’t be far behind. And that shouldn’t be anything anyone’s predicitng.
The Fertitta’s should of invested in something recession proof, like overpriced skull t-shirts and 80’s era metal bands. What were they thinking?
Station Casinos is having financial problems but so are lots of companies, thing is the banks also have a vested interest in Station Casinos staying afloat as does the state of Nevada. Of course even if Station filed for bankruptcy it doesn’t mean they are going out of business companies come in and out of bankruptcy all the time.
This is all very petty
Clearly there is bad blood between the orgs, and bloodyelbow is simply reporting it. I want both orgs to do well…but everything I have read seems to imply that Station Casino’s are not doing well…but who cares, it will not drag down the UFC.
The UFC is a product, like the WWE. Brand loyalty means everything to their followers (“I’ll take a Budlight please…”)regardless of the quality.
Wags
in the event that affliction stops doing mma events ...
… they seem to be digging themselves into a pretty deep hole, with regard to their apparel ever seeing the inside of a ufc octagon ever again.
of course, it’s business… and they’re just slinging mud like everyone else.
out of curiosity, have any of their sponsored fighters switched to other companies as a result of the ufc ban? just wondering what kind of affect the ban has on the fighters themselves, if any.
Maybe its just me...
But I can’t find any negative business write ups supporting anything truly negative that would make me believe they are in real trouble.
This whole post plus comments is rather interesting. First, BE is targeted as being anti-UFC. I’ve heard that one before. Next, there’s a little EXC, monopoly talk, and Affliction is dead. Then, there’s a little rehash of yesterday’s currency discussion. Floating currency rates = a lot of shit to discuss. Oh yeah, the UFC is making a play for Spike. Very dynamic stuff.
Actually, the Affliction guys are making a mistake in playing Dana White’s game. I don’t think they can win the trash talk grand prix. It’s all pretty funny. One party asserting that their competitor is in trouble. The other fires back with the essentially the same shit. They’re being children. Children running multi-million dollar companies, but children, nonetheless.
A meta-question
I noticed this post carries the designation, “Edited and fronted by Luke Thomas.” I’m just curious: What was edited? This is the first time I’ve seen this particular nomenclature on the site and I’m just curious on a purely meta level of what Luke decided to edit and why.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
I only copy edit. There is no alteration of opinion in any way.
I’ll correct misspellings, incorrect grammar and only add content in the form of SEO optimization. So in the title for this post I added “Affliction VP Tom” to “Atencio” since those combination of words are more likely to come up in searches. I also added the minimal text and hyperlink of “MMA Rated as the scoop” since what was originally there was simply the URL.
I cannot promote FanPosts to the front page that are full of errors and not ready for primetime posting. I won’t alter what some is trying to say, but I will improve its readability.
Gotcha
I’d rather read something without egregious spelling mistakes anyway.
"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich." --Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy
by thetakeover on Oct 29, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Too bad for The Fertittas that they don’t have another Billion Dollar business to fall back on, oh wait they do nevermind. It’s hillarious to see These Affliction guys talking tough after they were just ready to throw in the towel and get ouf of the MMA business because they are in debt and way over their heads. Anyone who knows Dana and co. know that they don’t mess around and won’t stop until Beard and Atencio end up like The Shaws which will happen sometime next year I guarantee it.
There's one problem with UFC being the only game...
Dana White does things out of personal spite. He didn’t really like Arlovsky and ditched him. Had there been no Affliction, we’d have no way of watching his awesome fights. Also Fedor. Without affliction, there’s a lot of reason to kiss Dana’s ass because if you don’t, he might let you go and then there’s no alternative. If Dana was a little more reasonable then I wouldn’t mind UFC being the only game, but he’s not. Of course that’s my opinion.
That has always been my gripe as well
Not to mention the fact that he refuses to co-promote, or even work in the slightest with any other promotion. If the UFC is the only game in town. Then I get to pay 55-60 bucks a month to see 1 MMA PPV. If there are several thriving HIGH LEVEL promotions. Then I can see several competing shows every month, Usually for free. People always use the NFL analogy when pining for UFC monopoly. However there are 32 competing NFL teams. If you don’t like to fortunes of one. You can follow another. UFC monopoly to me. Is more akin to saying " I am only going to watch boxing events put on by Don King." Sure you could do that. Buy why limit yourself?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Are you serious?
How do you know that Dana wants a monopoly? He, and other UFC reps, have stated before that they know there are more good fighters out there than they can employ at the UFC….
Is it just because Dana and the UFC have gone to war with two other high profile promotions?
Seriously?
EXC need to be put down, they were giving the entire sport a bad name. If I could prove that Dana was instumental in pusing EXC into bankruptcy, I would send him a Thank You Card. I feel for the out of work fighters, but the org itself was terrible.
Affliction? Seriously? Dana himself has said that he has no problem with Atencio, except that Atencio publically called out the UFC and said they were going to eclipse them. Dana himself said that particular act turned it into a fight.
And beyond that, how could you hold it against Dana and the UFC for having a problem with Affliction? WHERE DID AFFICTION MAKE THE MONEY THEY USED TO START UP THEIR FIGHT PROMOTION? OFF OF UFC FIGHTERS WEARING THEIR SHIRTS IN THE OCTAGON!!!!!
Seriously, who wouldn’t be pissed if one of the companies they helped put on the make with that kind of publicity turned around and decided to branch into their buisness and compete with them?
Dana has made no moves to crush Strikeforce. Hell, he has lavished praise on the Strikeforce management whenever they have come up in interviews.
So the UFC doesn’t want an MMA monopoly? It was just coincidence that they scheduled counter-programming whenever Affliction or EXC on CBS ran an event? Sure Dana hasn’t really bashed Strikeforce to this point. But let them land on CBS and start bidding for UFC free agents. Then Scott Coker will be a F%*N Moron and Scumbag, and Strikeforce execs will be idiots who don’t know what the hell they are doing.
I love the UFC and watch at least 90% of the shows they do. I just don’t think a monopoly is good for consumers in any field. It might be good for Dana and the Fertittas. But it won’t be good for the fighters, or the consumers.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Is a monopoly good for football fans?
How about baseball (which actually gets antitrust exemption)?
by Derek Suboticki on Oct 29, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
There are 32 NFL teams competing.
There are 30 MLB teams competing.
Would it be good for Fans if only Golden Boy was able to put on Boxing cards?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
The monopoly power of a promotion like the UFC would be tempered by the fact that there are other entertainment and sports substitutes. There is a price point where a significant number of consumers will simply not buy PPV’s or tickets to a live show if the promotion in question tries to push prices up drastically. This is unlike an electric utility with a monopoly, where substitution for their product is nearly impossible.
I also don’t believe the financial barrier to entry for a competing organization is all that high. While a competitor can’t come in and immediately compete with the UFC in all facets of MMA, they can put on shows that aren’t that expensive when compared with other sports. It’s not likely to see competitors emerge from scratch, given the economic climate. However, Affliction has proven that it’s possible. Their problem is cost structure. I don’t believe it’s high probability proposition to come in and immediately try to beat the UFC; it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that an organization could emerge as a competitor with a carefully constructed business plan.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 29, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Good points Cannon J
The only point I would bring up is this. The UFC model is built on PPV and live gates. There is no Free UFC. So if they price themselves out of the “common fans” market. Then there isn’t any other viable alternative. You can either pay up, or quit following MMA. Both of those options suck for fans. If the NFL prices their seats out of the fans price range. Stay home and watch the game on TV. With the UFC, it’s not really an option. True then that another MMA organization can come in and attempt to take market share. Unfortunately we have already seen how “Hardcore fans” react to anything non-zuffa. Blind Brand loyalty threatens to sink MMA before it even fully hits the mainstream audience. In my opinion that is not a good thing.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
I think this is a backward reasoning. The UFC won’t put themselves on network when they deem it possible and so break into the mainstream, as a result. It’s more likely the other way around – network deals will be doable (mutually beneficial) only when MMA has already breached, or nearly breached, into the mainstream entertainment market.
More likely than not, competition for shares of the MMA market will stall the growth of the sport by forcing Zuffa to hold up necessary investments aiming to do so. This because they will be spending money on counter programming, and such, instead.
The growth of MMA will be better off once all competition for niche market shares comes to a halt.
by ununkvadrium on Oct 29, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s impossible. Basic business models suggest any newcomer would have to competently spend four times as much as the UFC to catch up with them in an established market as the leader. It simply can’t be done unless a major network runs a company and gives it free airtime.
by Michael Rome on Oct 29, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I realize that trying to contend with the UFC at this point, on their scale is likely impossible. The point I was attempting to make was that groups could offer an MMA product on an infrequent basis. I believe this scenario has a far greater likelihood of being profitable than trying to work on the scale that ProElite tried, and Affliction is trying. That’s one of the reasons why I don’t fear a monopoly situation.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 29, 2008 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
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