The Case for Women in the UFC

by Michael Rome on Oct 22, 2008 8:27 PM EDT in News Comment 34 comments

Womens MMA Years ago, when the UFC was trying to get sanctioned across the country, Dana White decided that having women fight on his show would just create PR nightmares that he didn't need. He may have been right. It's easy to imagine legislators showing pictures of bloody girls in order to fight regulation efforts. Now that the sport is regulated in almost every state, that concern is gone for the most part, but it made no sense until this week for the UFC to even consider a women's division. All of the top and marketable talent was signed elsewhere, and there'd really be no point to starting a women's division that was inferior to the one over at EliteXC.

Over the course of two major CBS shows, Gina Carano established herself as an elite-level draw. Her fights drew over a million new viewers each show, and she does incredible search numbers online. Nobody in the UFC has drawn those kind of TV ratings all year besides Anderson Silva in July. People are very interested in her. Even better, she actually has exciting fights and has the talent to carry the pressure put on her. With sagging TV ratings for live specials, featuring the women's division on Ultimate Fight Nights could be a boost.

Of course, that brings us to the long-discussed topic of a women's season of The Ultimate Fighter. People behind the show have reportedly pushed Dana for this for a long time, but he has resisted. People at Spike think it would do huge ratings, and it's hard to argue with them. House full of women, alcohol, and fighting to break down a barrier to get into the UFC will be a recipe for a lot of interest. One of the great things about the original TUF was the emotional aspect of the show. These fighters were really looking for their break. Giving women a chance to make it to the UFC would bring that back.

Further, it is not as if there is no room for them. Looking at the next three UFC shows, there's really no way to argue that there is no room for a women's fight on the show. It's not as if Gray Maynard vs. Rich Clementi desparately needs to be on PPV saturday. The truth is that the UFC has one or two slow fights on almost every card, and the women rarely disappoint. It may be a change of pace that adds to the show.

I don't think weight class objections are really an issue. They only need one weight class. If they made it 145, women above and below would find a way to make it to that weight to fight in the UFC, or they'd fight a few pounds below to be there. Either way, it's not like the UFC has an obligation to do multiple divisions if they have women in their organization.

One option that has been discussed is creating a women's division in the WEC. They could actually run PPV shows if they had Gina Carano and Urijah Faber on top, whereas right now PPV is a nonstarter.

Creating a women's division would create a great benefit for fans, fighters, and Zuffa. Women's MMA is really the only opening out there to compete with Zuffa on, and they could close that opening very easily.

The UFC ought to host Gina Carano vs. Cristiane Santos next year, maybe for free on Spike, or under GSP and Penn in January. It would be a good test of the drawing power of women in the UFC. My guess is it would do fantastic numbers.

Finally, it's very easy to focus on Gina and ignore the rest of the women. Tara LaRosa is stuck in purgatory, signed to a company that has no funding and no future. There are a number of other female fighters that can become names fans pay to see, and there's no reason to resist giving them a chance to win fans over. Gina may be the only female draw at the moment, but there's no reason to think others cannot emerge. Don't even try to tell me Michelle Waterson isn't marketable.

Dana White is known for sticking to his guns, but he's been willing to bend in the past when it's good for business. He brought back Tito Ortiz even when he hated him, and brought back BJ Penn after Penn sued him. Dana should channel that spirit and change his position on women in the UFC.

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I’m almost convinced by that and I really don’t care for women’s MMA.

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2008 8:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I second that

http://mma4real.net/

by Tha Realness on Oct 22, 2008 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree wholeheartedly with Rome…great post. I’m not sure about a TUF version for women, but I wouldn’t rule it out either. They did have Fight Girls. I think it would be good if they had 2 weight divisions, one at 145 and one at around 115.

But you’re absolutely right, someone like Michelle Waterson is extremely marketable. I mean she trains at Greg Jackson’s camp; to have someone like Greg Jackson endorse her means something. Imagine marketing her against Felice Herrig, who also has a legit stand-up background and keeps fighting kickboxing because she can’t get an MMA fight on the east coast. UFC fans would go nuts watching Lana Stefanc demolish opponents.

Throw in someone like Rosi Sexton, who has an 8-1 pro MMA record, a son, and a PhD in theoretical computer science from Manchester University – imagine not only her marketability, but how she could help to (1) push MMA in the U.K. and (2) change the image of MMA fighters across the world.

And as you mention, the Carano-Cyborg story needs to be completed. Why White wouldn’t showcase such a match is beyond me. Carano and Santos would not be promoting their match on late night TV. They’d be on Good Morning America and The Today Show discussing women in MMA, and the UFC would at the helm. For the UFC not to spearhead women’s MMA at this juncture is actually bad business.

by dmayeda on Oct 22, 2008 8:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It isn’t that female fighters aren’t marketable it’s the depth of woman’s mma as a whole. How many compelling matchups are their for gina after cyborg? Seeing how she is the only draw right now I don’t see the ufc building a female division for only one big name.

by Epy on Oct 22, 2008 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Funny, TUF with women was the most interesting of the selling points to me.

Intentional Blog on Balls

by Richard Wade on Oct 22, 2008 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think this is a fantastic write-up.

by Luke Thomas on Oct 22, 2008 8:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I still like the idea of women in the WEC the best. I think introducing women on the UFC cards would create some displacement for fighters already under contract. If the UFC is going to have X number of fighters under contract, they should give them the opportunity to fight enough to justify fighting as a career. I’d really like to see two weight divisions, anyway – 145 and 135. It’s silly for Gina to fight at 140 when she has such difficulty making that weight, and some of the women fighting at 140 seem really too small for that weight or 145.

EXC’s failure to use Gina as a bridge to market the other women was a failure of mammoth proportion in my mind. There are several women that I can think of off the top of my head that would be good opponents for Gina and are close in size – Cyborg, Sarah Kaufman, Marloes Coenen.

by Cannon Jacques on Oct 22, 2008 8:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hear a lot of people bitch about 91 not being deep enough and refusing to order the PPV. Could you imagine the outcry if a women’s match was on the main card? I don’t care how much of a draw Carano is, the talent depth in their division is just not deep enough for Dana to consider a division in the UFC or WEC.

by steveoc24 on Oct 22, 2008 9:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It’s interesting to consider how Cyborg/Carano became a big match. All it took was Cyborg demolishing Baszler. Really, any number of big matches can be built, it’s not like Cyborg is the only one with potential. Larosa-Gina has a great story behind it and is an easy sell if done right.

by Michael Rome on Oct 22, 2008 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Carano is a great fighter and the two fights that I’ve seen with Cyborg seems to be a great match-up to me.

The problem is when most people think of women’s MMA, they think of Gina. Hardcores think of Gina/Cyborg/LaRosa. Outside of those three, people would not be interested in watching two female fighters fight on a PPV that they nothing about. I’m sure they would much rather watch Maynard/Clementi.

by steveoc24 on Oct 22, 2008 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

However, I can see Dana creating a women’s divsion in the UFC if he can get Jenna Jameson to fight. He would match her up against Cyborg for the first fight. I would pay to see that.

by steveoc24 on Oct 22, 2008 9:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree that there just doesn’t seem to be the depth for a women’s division in the UFC but that line of thinking doesn’t really make sense when talking about the WEC, their Light-Heavyweight division had 6 fighters in it before they shut it down. 10 women’s fighters could make a credible division in the WEC and Carano is a bigger draw than the whole organization at this point. It differentiates the brands and gives the WEC something else to promote that the UFC doesn’t have.

by who me on Oct 22, 2008 9:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’d love to see women’s MMA in the WEC, with the loss of the other weight classes they need something that will fill the gap, either move the 155s out of the UFC (which isn’t likely to happen) or add something to help the WEC fill out their cards.
White isn’t against womens MMA, he’s stated many times that he just doesn’t think there are enough skilled fighters to continue to put on exciting fights.

by pr0cs on Oct 22, 2008 9:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is just a talking point though.

by Michael Rome on Oct 22, 2008 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think a legitimate option would be to also feature female fights without creating structured divisions within the organization, be it WEC or UFC. As stated more than once Gina’s draw is undeniable and to forfeit that opportunity for profit – or whatever other motivation a person has – would be simply bad business.
The leeway granted with only featuring marquee fights works in many ways. First, it doesn’t require the depth of an entire division of women. This seems to be a very big problem right now in the sport as women are being forced to take fights in any weight near their actual fighting weight just to get a spot on a card. It could be argued that right now there simply aren’t enough talented AND exciting fighters to fulfill multiple divisions. The prospects are spread amongst what should be multiple weight classes. Under this structure of “freelance” female fights the promotion is open to having a 130lb fight on one card and a 145lb fight on a card later without constricting all of its stable to one weight class.
Second, it allows the promotion to “test the waters” without committing to multiple – or perhaps any – long term contracts. Slipping a female fight onto a card every few months allows the audience who isn’t used to seeing women fight become accustomed to it in small doses. There are, quite publicly, many people who are opposed to female MMA.
Third, it helps to neutralize the possibility of an uninteresting fight that may damage the buildup of the female division. When they can pick and choose which fights make it onto the card they have absolute control on building personalities, matchups, styles and skill levels.
One big factor against this idea is that Zuffa rarely does non-contract work. It also makes their leverage on which women fight absolutely tyrannical. If there were rumblings about the way Gina was kept and how women had to accept the fight against her no matter what this situation will cause them to explode.
However, I think the upsides of a slow buildup and manicured growth of exposed talent will pay off in the long run.

by Simco on Oct 22, 2008 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rome, I could not agree with you more. I’ve been lobbying these exact points forever now. They have nothing to lose. One fight per card to start and see how it goes. Do you think I tuned into elite xc to watch Kimbo Slice? Hell no. I appreciate a good match whether it be male or female. I think it appeals to both purists and casuals alike. Purists get to see two skilled fighters with ever evolving skills and casuals get to see two chicks duking it out. You can’t lose. I brought this up to White at the ufc 69 weigh-in in Houston. His main issue was that there is not enough skilled females out their. Why would there be when they have no futere in the sport? The whole reason kids practice football, basesball, ect everyday is in hope of making it big time. Put the money there, then the talent will come. Personally, I think there’s enough talent out there right now to get started.

by Josh H. on Oct 22, 2008 10:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is another point, the “lack of depth” is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Having big women’s fights on TV would lead to a generation of women interested in getting into this. Not in the numbers that men are interested, but enough.

by Michael Rome on Oct 22, 2008 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

“I brought this up to White at the ufc 69 weigh-in in Houston. His main issue was that there is not enough skilled females out their. Why would there be when they have no futere in the sport?”

Why does this have to fall on Dana White’s shoulders? Let another organization spend money and build up a talented and deep women’s division. I think Dana has enough on his plate at this point with UFC and the WEC and traveling all over the planet trying to get MMA regulated and recognized world wide.

by steveoc24 on Oct 22, 2008 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn’t have to fall on his shoulders, but he (and the UFC) should recognize an opportunity when it wanders by. Besides, the UFC has many talented people; surely Mr. White can find a VP to handle a women’s division.

As the New York Times pointed out in May 08, over 5000 girls participated in high school wrestling in the 2006-7 academic year, that’s 300% growth in ten years (compared to 1600 girls in 1996-7). Colleges are adding women’s wrestling as a varsity sport and women’s wrestling is now an Olympic sport. Add to that the many young women who participate in various martial arts (Judo, TKD, Karate and others), and you have a lot of potential competitors who would stay in their respective sports longer if they knew that a career was possible.

Thank you for this post, btw. From your blog to God’s ears…

Mich
http://maspikteruzim.wordpress.com

by Michal on Oct 22, 2008 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You don’t think Dana White has thought about this and researched this and came to a conclusion that it was nothing worth pursuing?

by steveoc24 on Oct 22, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not necessarily. UFC 69 was a year and a half ago (Apr 7, 07); there’s more data available now.
Also, as you pointed out, he “has enough on his plate at this point” so it is likely not be in the top 10 on his to-do list, and there may not be someone in-house championing the idea.

Mich
http://maspikteruzim.wordpress.com

by Michal on Oct 23, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Think about this...

There was a huge up-roar about Carano only making 25k for her last EXC fight. Sure, she should have made more since EXC pushed her and Kimbo as the “face of MMA” but that’s why they went under due to putting on “circus” headliners.

Imagine if Carano went to WEC. Have you seen the past WEC payouts to their fighters? Almost 75% of those fighters made less than 25k. Even if you look at the UFC, you have to put in almost 2 years of service to make 25k and that’s being victorious after defeating very tough and highly skilled fighters . Shit, Fitch was like 5-0 and on the under card making less.

Carano and her management team want more money, and I don’t blame them. But how do you give her more money than a good portion of your roster when most MMA fans can’t even name 5 female fighters.

I think their would be a huge backlash with UFC/WEC fighters against Dana.

by steveoc24 on Oct 23, 2008 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK??

So because a year or two later there is a popular female fighter named Carano and now he needs to put this on his “to do list”?

by steveoc24 on Oct 23, 2008 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not a woman MMA hater. I’ve seen plenty of entertaining fights and look forward to seeing more. I just think there is a lot of “Pro’s and Con’s” to consider and that is why Dana has came out and said they won’t allow it under promotion.

by steveoc24 on Oct 22, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to agree...

I think that Rome’s article (which is quite good) does bring up a number of the reasons why the notion of women in the UFC could very well have some traction; however, there are additional reasons that the idea could easily flounder. For one thing, one will notice that much of this discussion focuses on Gina Carano, and if one thing has come out of this EliteXC implosion, it isn’t that one marketable star does a sound business plan make. Not that any endeavor into female MMA could only cash itself out in such terms, but these are dangerous waters. The best way to prevent a similar situation would be to allocate some serious assets to it and really build it up, right from the get-go. Building off that point, and it something I mentioned in my comments to another fanpost, there are some reasons why this might not be feasible. The UFC might not have the liquid capital or idle/easily-redistributed staff on hand to properly make the effort at this time. They have already gone pretty far into working toward regulation in the states while pushing pretty hard toward international markets. That is a pretty full plate on top of normal day-to-day operations.

Lastly, here’s a point that I know is close to Zuffa’s heart although it really hasn’t been mentioned in the discussion: brand identity. Zuffa has worked pretty hard to carve out who they are and what they do and the inclusion of female MMA could change the equation for them. It could require them to spend a lot more money to maintain it, or if the experiment didn’t work, then it would almost certainly require some serious elbow grease on their part to recover. This all without mentioning about their global plans and whether or not female MMA could be a major turn-off in otherwise receptive and lucrative markets.

by Rundownloser on Oct 23, 2008 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good points.

Minimizing the fact that there is one popular star in female MMA doesn’t change that reality. Initiating a female division, or divisions, in the WEC or UFC will take significant resources in my opinion. You could just do a few matches here and there to test the waters, but I don’t believe that’s a good solution. Without a title picture and narrative beyond Gina Carano, there’s no long-term plan there. These two aspects are where Zuffa excels, and it’s hard for me to believe they would break form and take a partial approach to female MMA. Besides, it’s going to be much easier for Zuffa to drop the whole initiative altogether if they have disappointing results or negative feedback at the outset. I think they have to approach the female side from a comprehensive perspective.

It’s also a mistake to ignore other current and potential investments that face Zuffa, not to mention a difficult scenario in regards to capital formation. These considerations favor the aforementioned partial approach that I don’t favor. I’d rather see women get a strong commitment of resources behind them, because failure at this point could set female fighting back significantly.

by Cannon Jacques on Oct 23, 2008 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your last paragraph is exactly why I don’t think that the UFC would be amenable to female MMA. With the introduction of a new element, like a Women’s division, they risk brand identity during a period of introduction to the market (even in the US). Experimentation can easily hurt them.

That is also why if any Zuffa promotion picks them up, it’ll be the WEC. There’s less to risk and the stakes aren’t nearly as high. That said, I still don’t expect Dana to sign off on the idea.

by Rundownloser on Oct 23, 2008 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Personally, I think if there is something that will ever hurt the ufc it will be global expansion. It’s cool where it’s at right now. It’s like the NFL trying to go to England; Why? It’s a waste of money if does just fine here. Yes, it could catch on and be a huge success, but that’s a hell of a gamble. I think the ufc currently has a plan that will work forever. I just don’t see how a profit can be turned overseas. Japan, yes. Phillipines, Mexico, don’t think so.Those international ufc’s have to cost at least 20 times what a show in Vegas cost with fights, hotels, crews, ect… Another thing, why do we always worry what the public thinks about our sport or if ESPN gave us 10 seconds or 10 minutes of air time. I think one of the coolest things about this sport is that it’s ours. Screw the public’s perception. It’s their loss.

by Josh H. on Oct 22, 2008 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The UK is already very profitable, and they’ll do very well in the Philippines. Japan is likely going to be the toughest.

by Michael Rome on Oct 23, 2008 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

What you think is “cool” doesn’t really matter to the UFC.
And you can’t compare the global perception of American football and combat sports on the same level. They’re completely different entities.
What are you using as your basis for assessment concerning the financial investments of foreign shows?

by Simco on Oct 23, 2008 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t get me wrong, I could be way off on the global expansion thing and hope that I am. The “cool” thing I was referencing was MMA belonging to us the hardcore fans and not the public. That wasn’t part of my global expansion argument. That was part of my “who cares if MMA is ever excepted by the public” argument. Yes, I do agree that comparing MMA to football is like comparing apples and oranges. Everyone enjoys a good fight no matter where you’re from. My point was; Why risk it? Everytime the ufc puts on an international show it’s right next to a local ufc date wise. Who can afford more than one ufc per month unless its free on spike of course. The average ticket sale income is about 2 million which is about the same as the total fighters payroll per show after bonuses, so there’s no profit there. If there’s no profit there, that only leaves pay per view and merchandise to profit from. Again, I could be way off on this, I am a psyc major and have no experience in marketing. I just don’t see how less affluent countries can afford to purchase the necessary number of pay per views or merchandise to make it worth the ufc’s while. If they hold their events Pride style where like 100,000 people attend, then I could see a profit being turned.

by Josh H. on Oct 23, 2008 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

100% AGREE

I agree 100% with Rome. Before EliteXC folded it was my prediction that they wouldn’t last into 2009 and that when that day came, Zuffa needed to take over women’s MMA.

Zuffa’s goal is to build & promote WEC more in 2009… they want to have WEC PPVs… but at the same time they took away 2 of their weight divisions, merging them with the UFC. The perfect answer would be for WEC to start a women’s division!

At the same time, a women’s division in the UFC itself would also be good, for the reasons stated in Rome’s article. An all female TUF would only help promote (& stack) the division. 1 female fight per UFC event… lesser ones on the undercard, better ones on the main card.

ZUFFA – DO IT!

Keep Swillin',
Bruz

by Bruz on Oct 23, 2008 9:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

TUF...

I think if they do TUF they should do 8 women and 8 men from a different weight class so that you’re not relying entirely on the women to sell the show since it is a bit of an “unknown” right now. It would also be nice to show the ways that men and women train together without it being a big sexual struggle.

They’ll need 2 houses though. I don’t think I want to deal with additional “Real World” drama.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 23, 2008 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs