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Deadspin Writer Gets Lloyd Irvin Talking Points From Message Boards

Deadspin writer Rick Chandler picked up on this exclusive BloodyElbow.com reported about Lloyd Irvin, his family and Brandon Vera being robbed at gun point. I am huge fan of Deadspin, so I was greatly disappointed to see Chandler use talking points emanating from message boards and forums to slander Irvin without the slightest hint of homework on Chandler's part:

In an "exclusive" with MMA site Bloody Elbow (your most trusted source for news), Lloyd tells of how gunmen broke into his home and held his wife, 4-year-old son and — surprise! — Vera, hostage in a robbery attempt. Then things went very Walker, Texas Ranger:

...

Forgive me for being skeptical, and if this really happened, both Steven Seagal and I salute your bravery, Mr. Irvin. But it's hard to take a story seriously that 1. Hasn't run in any newspaper, even though it happened more than a week ago, 2. Has been reported only by an MMA site and a few message boards, and 3. Just happens to be tremendous advertising for your business, a martial arts studio. Hard to imagine someone with stones large enough to fake all of this, but some independent verification would be nice, and I can't find any.

One barely knows where to begin.

Chandler says he wants some "independent verification" of the story, but is clearly too lazy to do the work himself. Had he called the Prince George's County Police Department he'd know there actually is a police report regarding this matter (email me for the case number and phone number of the records office if that's not too much work). According to the officials I spoke with, this record won't be released to the public unless those involved in the incident make it public or "parties of interest" are granted access. Perhaps Chandler, after slandering Irvin, can convince Irvin to allow him access to the police report. If you want to get in touch with him, I can arrange it. Good luck with that.

The more disturbing element to the Deadspin post is just how intellectually lazy it is. Chandler never contacted me to get my side of the story. He (ostensibly) read the story we published and message board posts at NHB gear. He then decided the infantile caterwauling by Irvin's detractors was pretty damn compelling (think about that for a second and it tells you all you need to know). He literally accepted gossip and innuendo by folks not involved in the situation on any level as reliable enough to suggest Irvin is a charlatan and unethical marketer.

And that's the point here. I can get over the fact that this site was slandered for "comedic" effect. I believe this site is one of the top destinations for MMA fans worldwide, but when sports writers who know nothing about MMA don't recognize that it isn't the end of the world. We have growing to do. The Internet is a prickly place and someone's always going to squeeze a lemon. It's also a reasonable concern that the larger newspapers like the Washington Post didn't pick up on the story. So, healthy skepticism and swipes at other blogs is nothing to worked up over. But to do - literally - nothing more than read our story/a few message board posts by know-nothings and dismissively suggest with no knowledge of the people involved or without any independent homework on his own that Irvin is so unethical as to use my site and me, a member of Team Lloyd Irvin, to further his own marketing efforts by fabricating out of whole cloth a tragic incident that never happened is abhorrent and pathetic.

Some will suggest that because I am a member of Team Lloyd Irvin that I therefore am willing to go along with this alleged charade. But the truth is between this website and my radio show on local CBS talker 106.7 WJFK, I could do significant damage to Irvin's credibility were I to discover he lied to me for his marketing efforts. In order for the message board zombies to be correct, Irvin would not only be inventing stories to further his career, he'd be using a team member with the most vocal platform to do it. On top of that, and here's the real rub, he'd be doing so despite his gyms growing in leaps and bounds all over the DC metro area. That's right: for the theory to be correct, despite success in the growth of his MMA and BJJ gyms, Irvin contacted me to invent a story that never happened and was willing to use a team member to do it. If that sounds plausible to you, you are in serious need of psychological evaluation. Oh, and there is a police report so I don't know how that fits into the whole "this never happened" element of the theory, but that isn't really my concern.

The clowns on message boards can be forgiven their trespasses for unjustifiably slinging accusations and proclamations with no evidence or reason to believe anything other than their own snap judgment. That is, after all, par for the course. For the Associate Editor of one of the biggest and best sports blogs in existence to find such nonsense compelling enough to suggestively slander Irvin is just sad.

I didn't think so at the time, but maybe Bissinger had a point after all.

UPDATE: Rick contacted me and took me up on my offer to get him in touch with Irvin, so I obliged. Rick has now spoken to Irvin (who is in England) quite extensively and we are expecting an updated story very soon. I won't describe what that might look like right now, but suffice it to say I welcome the proposed follow up. Stay tuned.

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I read that one earlier. It seemed pretty stupid to me.. he got skeptical because ESPN didn’t talk about it.

Waiting for the TV to tell a reporter what is or isn’t real = crazy lazy.

by mythbuster on Oct 15, 2008 12:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, especially since ESPN is the source for all things mma.

by Andy R on Oct 15, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and ESPECIALLY...

seeing as how Deadspin spends a good 50% of their time ripping on ESPN.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 15, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More than that,

between making fun of that lazy-eyed guy & baggin on the fat guy there is little room for any other kind of reporting.

by dnevil001 on Oct 15, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suppose Chandler doesn’t have time to bother with seeking the “independent verification” he holds in such high regard.

by Cannon Jacques on Oct 15, 2008 12:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Of course not

He’s got clever jabs and insults to hurl.

by Luke Thomas on Oct 15, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually they’re not that clever.

by Cannon Jacques on Oct 15, 2008 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why did he call it an “‘exclusive’” in his diary entry? Was it for the same reason I called what he posted a diary entry? Which is to ask if it was because he was being a petty child and looking to discredit your work?

by Brett Jones on Oct 15, 2008 12:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I was just about

to send you guys this. These jackoffs are acting like Irvin made this up to promote his gym.

by dnevil001 on Oct 15, 2008 12:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey! Your welcome.

by RoyalB on Oct 15, 2008 12:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And not suprisingly, they clipped my comment privleges over at Gawker.

I didn’t even reply to anything yet.

by RoyalB on Oct 15, 2008 12:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The comments on that unfounded crap opinion masquerading as a story are particularly telling about his audience…

by iiowyn on Oct 15, 2008 12:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post Luke. It’s unbelievable that a reporter would accuse someone of lying without even checking if there was a police report or with anyone involved for that matter.

All I know, is that if someone tried to rob me and my son was involved and then after the fact was accused of it not happening and slandered without even being asked, I’d be fucking livid.

by LiuLang on Oct 15, 2008 1:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if deadspin was a person they would be this guy and they would still be to cool to cover mma correctly.

by lunedi18 on Oct 15, 2008 1:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

pwned
Chandler says he wants some “independent verification” of the story, but is clearly too lazy to do the work himself. Had he called the Prince George’s County Police Department he’d know there actually is a police report regarding this matter (email me for the case number and phone number of the records office if that’s not too much work).

"It's like a flying knuckle sandwich.--Rogan
"And many men have eaten it." -- Goldy

by thetakeover on Oct 15, 2008 1:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Douchey McDouchestein wrote one of the worst news articles I’ve ever read – my god, it’s not hard to pick up a damn phone and make a few calls nowadays, or with this “internet” thing kids talk about these days, you can find most anything. Even wikipedia is a step above what he did.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Oct 15, 2008 1:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Now that is a fucking rant to be proud of

And he deserved every measured word of it. Irvin may be a million things we don’t know about yet, but we don’t know yet, so keep yer fucking piehole shut.

See, that wasn’t NEARLY as articulate as yours.

by subo on Oct 15, 2008 1:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I just feel it’s dangerous that an opinion piece is being put forth as though it has any factual background. To have someone on the opposite side of the argument offer to spoon feed you information in which you can find out the truth is ridiculous. It seems that any research of primary documents was not only abandoned, but not even attempted. Such is the way of the internet.

by slamnbam88 on Oct 15, 2008 2:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

“We should be seeing this on SportsCenter day and night” was where he went wrong with his analysis.

It took ESPN like a year to pick up on Lee Murray’s story… and that wasn’t until after he robbed a bank and got stuck in a Moroccan jail. Apparently getting stabbed in the heart and nearly dieing 3 times after kicking Tito Ortiz’s ass in a streetfight just isn’t very newsworthy.

Lee Murray made Pacman Jones look like a schoolgirl.

by penxv on Oct 15, 2008 2:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If someone had suggested that I was a charlatan I would simply ask him how my pee pee pee taste and be done with it.

by Day Man on Oct 15, 2008 2:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey Luke: What happened to the gun?

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Oct 15, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

“Some will suggest that because I am a member of Team Lloyd Irvin that I therefore am willing to go along with this alleged charade. But the truth is between this website and my radio show on local CBS talker 106.7 WJFK, I could do significant damage to Irvin’s credibility were I to discover he lied to me for his marketing efforts.”

EXCLUSIVE: Luke Thomas threatens to use his Awesome Power to destroy Lloyd Irvin

by smoogy on Oct 15, 2008 2:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's not what I mean

All I’m saying is Lloyd Irvin wouldn’t do something like this. Let’s use hypotheticals here. If he were lying (and I do not believe he is), why would he go through with it when I could reveal he lied were such matters to be true? I have some kind of audience and if he were lying, it would really, really backfire.

by Luke Thomas on Oct 15, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude,

all of your “normal” (used loosely) readers/listeners know exactly what you meant. Do not even respond to douchebags like Smoogy if they are unable even to make valid point.

by dnevil001 on Oct 15, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

… pretty sure smoogy is a “normal” reader, in whatever loose sense you intended — he’s been around here for quite a long time, at any rate — and, yeah, I think he was making a smoogy-joke. The use of “douchebag” there might have been a bit premature and inappropriate.

by Kierkegaard on Oct 15, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well then

I apologize for missing that “smoogy” joke & apologize for calling him a douchebag. I am laughing at smoogy’s comments as I type this.

by dnevil001 on Oct 15, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think smoogy was sort of kidding. I am not saying I don’t believe you because I do. I trust Master Lloyd Irving not to be a total dick, but your argument that he wouldn’t lie because of the risks is flawed. Its like a defense lawyer saying “Unless you think my client wanted to go to jail then there is no way he killed all those people. Why would someone do that unless they wanted to go to jail?” That is an exaggeration of course, but surly you see my point.

by szucconi on Oct 15, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough, but it does stand to reason that there’d be significant blowblack.

by Luke Thomas on Oct 15, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand your analogy here, but I think there is a key difference. Who knows what the motivation is for your hypothetical client to have killed people. There are a plethora of possibilities. I think the implication in the Lloyd Irvin example is that he might do this for financial gain. My opinion is that the potential financial gain is outweighed by the potential financial damage. It would seem that a rational thinking individual wouldn’t choose this path.

by Cannon Jacques on Oct 15, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is true, but there is no evidence that Master LLoyd is a rational thinking individual. Not to say that he is not. I was a student at a Lloyd Irving school so I have a respect for the man, but I am just arguing for argument sake.

by szucconi on Oct 15, 2008 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is the great thing about this site-

there are a lot of people who can & like to argue for argument sake & still have intelligent, civil discussions.

by dnevil001 on Oct 15, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, a lot of time when I post I think about it and its like “if this guy wants to be a dick we can go around and around like this forever” then I go back and check the thread and he either admits I have a point or comes back at me with an intelligent point that hadn’t crossed my mind. I love this site. I think it is making me smarter, if thats even possible. Although, I still can’t spell worth a damn.

by szucconi on Oct 15, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said, you have a valid point in regards to your earlier analogy.

All you have to do is look at the comments on Deadspin to really appreciate what goes on in the comments section here. Nobody enjoys being a dick more than myself.

by Cannon Jacques on Oct 15, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

@Rick:
Luke Thomas just crushed you on DC local radio. He didn’t appreciate that you made no effort to contact him to verify.

@BigTDog: Get in line, Luke. There’s about seven Waxing Off writers ahead of you.

What a douche.

by RoyalB on Oct 15, 2008 2:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

DeadSpin is god awful

I can go through the comments left on every bloody elbow article and fan post. I cant deal with the comments left on deadspin articles. Especially articles dealing with MMA.

by Discman2 on Oct 15, 2008 3:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I can scarcely go through most MMA blog’s comment sections (obviously BE is an exception), let alone Deadspin’s, without wanting to claw my own eyes out.

by Estrada on Oct 15, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey jem, get your comment box killed yet?

by RoyalB on Oct 15, 2008 3:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nah, I was a snarky jerk-off. They love that shit.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Oct 15, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

On Beatdown radio Brandon Vera did confirm that the incident happened but he wouldnt go into details until after his fight this weekend.

by Benicio on Oct 15, 2008 5:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Bloggers vs. Reporters

See, this brings up the difference between a blogger and a reporter. Deadspin is a blog, which has to do no work and can write with virtually no thought of repercussions. But, since Deadspin is owned by Gawker Media, people think it’s “media” and has some journalistic value when it doesn’t.

You, on the other hand, are a reporter. You do the legwork and get good stories. But because you are internet-only, not everyone sees the difference. But some of us know that there is a big difference between sites like (and, say, fiveouncesofpain.com) and blogs like Deadspin.

by RDT4 on Oct 15, 2008 6:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Actually

I would not call myself a reporter. I, too, am a blogger. But I realize there are certain minimums that have to be upheld to be accurate or authoritative.

by Luke Thomas on Oct 15, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

re: Actually

But having minimums to uphold is the difference between bloggers and reporters. Hey, I have a journalism degree, so to say that you can be considered a reporter kind of hurts my future job prospects. But I consider anybody who has standards to be reporters because you’re delivering information rather than (unfounded) commentary (and accusations).

by RDT4 on Oct 15, 2008 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But I do mostly commentary, so where does that leave me?

by Luke Thomas on Oct 15, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You call that commentary? :-P

BE certainly counts as closer to the journalism end of the newspaper/blog continuum, especially your posts, Luke.

Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones

by jemaleddin on Oct 16, 2008 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

re: Actually

Well, probably the first step toward reporting’s future. Most journalists are starting their own sites because papers are dying. That’s my plan when my $22K a year / no benefits job goes away.

Anyway, love the site, Deadspin’s going down the tube.

by RDT4 on Oct 16, 2008 1:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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